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It's not a hazing ritual, it's a necessary series of learning steps which equips you to be a good sysadmin of your new instance. Whatever did we do before Docke

It's not a hazing ritual, it's a necessary series of learning steps which equips you to be a good sysadmin of your new instance. Whatever did we do before Docker? The world must have sucked back then!

t0astbread 7y ago
Not to be snarky but Docker (+ Hub) is mostly just packaging with some isolation to avoid conflicts, right? So why would you recommend packages from "regular" package managers (as seen in the installation instructions) but not Docker? (This is a serious question, maybe I am missing something.)
- ignaloidas 7y ago
  Because Docker is a really shitty way to package applications. You don't package the application, you package an entire linux distro, with it's packages, and your application into a single opaque blob. Normal package managers just package your application in a more simple manner which works in conjunction with your OS, not on top of it.
  - t0astbread 7y ago
    It makes sense to package and isolate the base system since it avoids any "hidden state" that could influence the behaviour of your program and introduce hard-to-debug errors. And it's not packed into a single opaque block: You can specify an image to derive your image from and Docker will overlay-mount your image on top of the base image, avoiding the need to store multiple copies of a base image.
emptysongglass 7y ago
I can equip myself by reading the docs. I don't need to run through the Arch Linux or Gentoo Handbook because I want to run Arch or Gentoo. I can do those experiments in my own time, after I've delighted in what those distributions have to offer. Besides, none of this addresses the laundry list of reasons why running the distributions that package your stuff is unfeasible: a server administrator with a Synology NAS, an enterprise lackey with a limited environment, or one working with any of the containers-only enterprise distributions. Guix System (another really cool FOSS thing) and sr.ht are beautiful projects from the outside but they are hampered by their inflexibility, adherence to dogma, and resistance to critique. I once wanted to play with Guix System's new `deploy` command on a DO droplet and nobody really wanted to consider that their newfangled command was entirely bungled. You can see this kind of treatment to potential contributors echoed in examples throughout this post's comments. It is endemic to FOSS communities. And it sucks. Ideals are only realized in compromise. There is no example in history of anything else.

t0astbread 7y ago

Not to be snarky but Docker (+ Hub) is mostly just packaging with some isolation to avoid conflicts, right? So why would you recommend packages from "regular" package managers (as seen in the installation instructions) but not Docker? (This is a serious question, maybe I am missing something.)

ignaloidas 7y ago
Because Docker is a really shitty way to package applications. You don't package the application, you package an entire linux distro, with it's packages, and your application into a single opaque blob. Normal package managers just package your application in a more simple manner which works in conjunction with your OS, not on top of it.
- t0astbread 7y ago
  It makes sense to package and isolate the base system since it avoids any "hidden state" that could influence the behaviour of your program and introduce hard-to-debug errors. And it's not packed into a single opaque block: You can specify an image to derive your image from and Docker will overlay-mount your image on top of the base image, avoiding the need to store multiple copies of a base image.

emptysongglass 7y ago

I can equip myself by reading the docs. I don't need to run through the Arch Linux or Gentoo Handbook because I want to run Arch or Gentoo. I can do those experiments in my own time, after I've delighted in what those distributions have to offer. Besides, none of this addresses the laundry list of reasons why running the distributions that package your stuff is unfeasible: a server administrator with a Synology NAS, an enterprise lackey with a limited environment, or one working with any of the containers-only enterprise distributions. Guix System (another really cool FOSS thing) and sr.ht are beautiful projects from the outside but they are hampered by their inflexibility, adherence to dogma, and resistance to critique. I once wanted to play with Guix System's new `deploy` command on a DO droplet and nobody really wanted to consider that their newfangled command was entirely bungled. You can see this kind of treatment to potential contributors echoed in examples throughout this post's comments. It is endemic to FOSS communities. And it sucks. Ideals are only realized in compromise. There is no example in history of anything else.