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Are you sure you're not just rebelling against the new? Like in the past most people had to separate work from travel but now there's this new thing "digital no

Are you sure you're not just rebelling against the new? Like in the past most people had to separate work from travel but now there's this new thing "digital nomad" that lets lots of people work from anywhere and they're enjoying this new freedom that used to be available to a lot less people?

txcwpalpha 6y ago
My point that I'm having a hard time expressing is that these dropshippers do not seem to be "enjoying this new freedom" in the way you imply. As in, they aren't people who wished to travel, were previously unable to do so because of work commitments, and now are able to enjoy travel because of extra work freedoms. The majority of "nomads" I've encountered seem like they are mostly uninterested in travel, but they do it anyway because that's "what you're supposed to do" if you're a nomad. This leads to a bizarre culture where talking about the places they've been becomes more of a "digital nomad resume" than it does a recounting of enjoyable travel experiences. Instead of "I went to the Batu Caves and it was gorgeous, they have such interesting architecture there!", it becomes "yea I've been to the Batu Caves, there's a really nice cafe with good wifi just outside that I used to work from". Have you ever had a conversation with a professional consultant and they have this weird habit of bragging about waking up at 4am to catch flights to NYC, and the only thing they ever tell you about NYC is how nice the Midtown Marriott's beds are? It's kind of like that.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bigtones 6y ago
  "Have you ever had a conversation with a professional consultant and they have this weird habit of bragging about waking up at 4am to catch flights to NYC, and the only thing they ever tell you about NYC is how nice the Midtown Marriott's beds are? It's kind of like that." - you managed to very eloquently get your point across in the end. Totally got the great professional consultant analogy.
  - rootsudo 6y ago
    Agreed, great analogy. That's one reason I avoid Indonesia. Everyone there is just toxic in terms of tourists. Japan and Philippines are much more rewarding and much less "digital nomads." It used to be fun, but if you're part of any of the online groups on facebook it's a toxic sub culture.
    - bambataa 6y ago
      In what way is it toxic? Just out of interest. Personally I found the Ubud-style “wellness” tourist to be the worst.
    - tim333 6y ago
      I actually quite liked Canggu and that scene. Each to their own I guess.
- rewgs 6y ago
  Totally. I see it as just an extension of the 80's Yuppie. Instead of Patrick Bateman's friends bragging about the restaurants they go to (without even really caring about the food), their stereo equipment (while having absolutely zero taste or authentic interest in music), whatever, now it's bragging about where they travelled to and whatnot. It's inane peacocking. Virtue signaling without any virtue. Etc. Yuppies never die.
  - Roritharr 6y ago
    Someone should turn that into a new book/movie. This persona needs it.
    - spats1990 6y ago
      I have a short story about a guy like this. In the story, he's an independently wealthy Instagram rooftopper type. He gives the impression that he lives off money from streetwear/etc comp deals, but actually makes hardly anything from that, and he has been kicked out of Hong Kong for climbing on buildings. I should dig it out and finish it properly.
  - closeparen 6y ago
    Nothing about this is particular to digital nomads. It's the whole "eew conspicuous consumption is so tacky, experiences over things" movement. Today's Rolex is a gap year.
- LouisSayers 6y ago
  I don’t think ppl are traveling as digital nomads because “that’s what you’re supposed to do”. You’re missing the point of what they’re doing. Digital Nomads are in those places because it affords them a great lifestyle at minimal cost. Perhaps you’re also confusing travel with sight seeing. For me personally I love to travel but have little care for temples, churches, most waterfalls (unless it’s something truly spectacular) and other architectures which there are millions of around the world, or honestly are just a bit underwhelming. For me, travel is about being in amongst different cultures and experiencing what it’s like to live in a different place, and having unique experiences that you don’t get elsewhere. Yes, maybe some people are only taking advantage of the lifestyle and have little care for their environment, but like any group of people there’s a spectrum.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
spats1990 6y ago
I'm not the person you're replying to but my personal issue with a lot of "digital nomadism" in Asia specifically is that it depends on lax enforcement of visa laws. A lot of people working remotely in Asian countries are on three month tourist visas that explicitly prohibit work. Doing endless visa runs and not paying any tax to the host country, in fact not providing any value beyond what you consume, even while taking advantage of tax funded public infrastructure, seems wrong to me. In most of East Asia at least, visas for foreigners are tight in the sense that visas allowing you to live in the country and do whatever work you choose are hard to come by. Most visas for foreigners allow a specific type of work only and prohibit others. I busted my ass to get a three-year visa in Korea that would allow me to be self employed so these people's blind certainty that they are in the right/reliance on western privilege* to avoid being caught bugs me a bit. When challenged they fall back on letter of the law vs spirit of the law prevarication: "so what if I came here on holiday and happened to do some urgent remote work for my company back home, would that be illegal?" Well, you aren't in that situation; you have an apartment and a cellphone number and you're on your third tourist visa in a row. *by which I mean, less intense scrutiny at the border, which seems to be a privilege of westerners (I am one) in these countries vs. say, south east asians.
- robocat 6y ago
  > in fact not providing any value beyond what you consume, even while taking advantage of tax funded public infrastructure, seems wrong to me I would expect the economic benefit to the country to be significantly positive: 1. Every dollar spent is foreign income 2. Limited future costs to governmen: no retirement (huge cost), no unemployment benefits, no health (tourists should be insured - foreign income if actually need to use health services), no education. 3. Taxation still occurs (sales tax, wages of anyone working in a business the tourist uses). edit: 4. If the working tourist wasn’t in the country, the country would see zero of that income... It is marginal income. edit: In New Zealand for example: 1/2 of NZ government spending is on social welfare and education; another 1/4 is on finance; and Sales tax is 12.5%. We should encourage foreigners to work here as there’s no way their spending wouldn’t help the country, especially if they are earning a lot and spending a lot. Working visas allow people to take jobs from locals, which not what “digital nomads” are doing.
rb808 6y ago
No it means when I'm vacation I want to be with people that are also interested in doing interesting things. Not bros on laptops talking about their social media engagement.

txcwpalpha 6y ago

My point that I'm having a hard time expressing is that these dropshippers do not seem to be "enjoying this new freedom" in the way you imply. As in, they aren't people who wished to travel, were previously unable to do so because of work commitments, and now are able to enjoy travel because of extra work freedoms. The majority of "nomads" I've encountered seem like they are mostly uninterested in travel, but they do it anyway because that's "what you're supposed to do" if you're a nomad. This leads to a bizarre culture where talking about the places they've been becomes more of a "digital nomad resume" than it does a recounting of enjoyable travel experiences. Instead of "I went to the Batu Caves and it was gorgeous, they have such interesting architecture there!", it becomes "yea I've been to the Batu Caves, there's a really nice cafe with good wifi just outside that I used to work from". Have you ever had a conversation with a professional consultant and they have this weird habit of bragging about waking up at 4am to catch flights to NYC, and the only thing they ever tell you about NYC is how nice the Midtown Marriott's beds are? It's kind of like that.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bigtones 6y ago
"Have you ever had a conversation with a professional consultant and they have this weird habit of bragging about waking up at 4am to catch flights to NYC, and the only thing they ever tell you about NYC is how nice the Midtown Marriott's beds are? It's kind of like that." - you managed to very eloquently get your point across in the end. Totally got the great professional consultant analogy.
- rootsudo 6y ago
  Agreed, great analogy. That's one reason I avoid Indonesia. Everyone there is just toxic in terms of tourists. Japan and Philippines are much more rewarding and much less "digital nomads." It used to be fun, but if you're part of any of the online groups on facebook it's a toxic sub culture.
  - bambataa 6y ago
    In what way is it toxic? Just out of interest. Personally I found the Ubud-style “wellness” tourist to be the worst.
  - tim333 6y ago
    I actually quite liked Canggu and that scene. Each to their own I guess.
rewgs 6y ago
Totally. I see it as just an extension of the 80's Yuppie. Instead of Patrick Bateman's friends bragging about the restaurants they go to (without even really caring about the food), their stereo equipment (while having absolutely zero taste or authentic interest in music), whatever, now it's bragging about where they travelled to and whatnot. It's inane peacocking. Virtue signaling without any virtue. Etc. Yuppies never die.
- Roritharr 6y ago
  Someone should turn that into a new book/movie. This persona needs it.
  - spats1990 6y ago
    I have a short story about a guy like this. In the story, he's an independently wealthy Instagram rooftopper type. He gives the impression that he lives off money from streetwear/etc comp deals, but actually makes hardly anything from that, and he has been kicked out of Hong Kong for climbing on buildings. I should dig it out and finish it properly.
- closeparen 6y ago
  Nothing about this is particular to digital nomads. It's the whole "eew conspicuous consumption is so tacky, experiences over things" movement. Today's Rolex is a gap year.
LouisSayers 6y ago
I don’t think ppl are traveling as digital nomads because “that’s what you’re supposed to do”. You’re missing the point of what they’re doing. Digital Nomads are in those places because it affords them a great lifestyle at minimal cost. Perhaps you’re also confusing travel with sight seeing. For me personally I love to travel but have little care for temples, churches, most waterfalls (unless it’s something truly spectacular) and other architectures which there are millions of around the world, or honestly are just a bit underwhelming. For me, travel is about being in amongst different cultures and experiencing what it’s like to live in a different place, and having unique experiences that you don’t get elsewhere. Yes, maybe some people are only taking advantage of the lifestyle and have little care for their environment, but like any group of people there’s a spectrum.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

spats1990 6y ago

I'm not the person you're replying to but my personal issue with a lot of "digital nomadism" in Asia specifically is that it depends on lax enforcement of visa laws. A lot of people working remotely in Asian countries are on three month tourist visas that explicitly prohibit work. Doing endless visa runs and not paying any tax to the host country, in fact not providing any value beyond what you consume, even while taking advantage of tax funded public infrastructure, seems wrong to me. In most of East Asia at least, visas for foreigners are tight in the sense that visas allowing you to live in the country and do whatever work you choose are hard to come by. Most visas for foreigners allow a specific type of work only and prohibit others. I busted my ass to get a three-year visa in Korea that would allow me to be self employed so these people's blind certainty that they are in the right/reliance on western privilege* to avoid being caught bugs me a bit. When challenged they fall back on letter of the law vs spirit of the law prevarication: "so what if I came here on holiday and happened to do some urgent remote work for my company back home, would that be illegal?" Well, you aren't in that situation; you have an apartment and a cellphone number and you're on your third tourist visa in a row. *by which I mean, less intense scrutiny at the border, which seems to be a privilege of westerners (I am one) in these countries vs. say, south east asians.

robocat 6y ago
> in fact not providing any value beyond what you consume, even while taking advantage of tax funded public infrastructure, seems wrong to me I would expect the economic benefit to the country to be significantly positive: 1. Every dollar spent is foreign income 2. Limited future costs to governmen: no retirement (huge cost), no unemployment benefits, no health (tourists should be insured - foreign income if actually need to use health services), no education. 3. Taxation still occurs (sales tax, wages of anyone working in a business the tourist uses). edit: 4. If the working tourist wasn’t in the country, the country would see zero of that income... It is marginal income. edit: In New Zealand for example: 1/2 of NZ government spending is on social welfare and education; another 1/4 is on finance; and Sales tax is 12.5%. We should encourage foreigners to work here as there’s no way their spending wouldn’t help the country, especially if they are earning a lot and spending a lot. Working visas allow people to take jobs from locals, which not what “digital nomads” are doing.

rb808 6y ago

No it means when I'm vacation I want to be with people that are also interested in doing interesting things. Not bros on laptops talking about their social media engagement.