4 ms·

RECOVERING your password usually means retrieving the plaintext representation. Not just "resetting" it.

by hawaiian 6y ago

zouhair 6y ago
It could also mean recovering the access to root, this is just splitting hair anyway.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- eitland 6y ago
  > It could also mean recovering the access to root, No! Even for me as a non native speaker this is obvious since I have worked in the field for a few years. A car is a vehicle but saying that "a vehicle means a car is wrong". In the same way recovering access to the root account might give you the same effect as recovering the password, but often not. This is a situation were correct wording isn't hard and a situation where it matters in my opinion. People come here to learn and we shouldn't mislead them especially when the cost of fixing it is trivial. If I recover the access to root, fine, I have access to that machine. If I recover the root password I have access to all that the root password gives me access to. On systems where for example home or certain configuration files are encrypted using the password as a key (yes, a bit simplified), this is the difference between getting access to the data or not. > this is just splitting hair anyway. No. This is trying to avoid potentially costly misunderstandings.
  - laumars 6y ago
    > If I recover the access to root, fine, I have access to that machine. > If I recover the root password I have access to all that the root password gives me access to. In POSIX that's the same thing.
    - eitland 6y ago
      That might technically be true, but as far as I know, with my setup, if I reset my Linux password and use the new password to access my account, my data will be gone as the home folder encryption key was encrypted with my password or something to that effect. Now I cannot say for sure that this is possible on the root account as well - I've hardly used the actual root account since Ubuntu taught me otherwise in 2006 - but I see no obvious reason why you shouldn't be able to encrypt roots home folder the same way we encrypt other home folders. I'm interested in knowing though in case I'm missing something.
      - laumars 6y ago
        If you’re encrypting your whole disk (encrypting /root doesn’t give you any benefit) then you will need to enter your passphrase before your system gets as far as reading /etc/shadow. So that guide basically assumes you either already know your decryption passphrase or you don’t have full disk encryption. In either case, changing roots password wouldn’t lock you out of the root file system
        eitland 6y ago
        > If you’re encrypting your whole disk Not what I am talking about. I'm talking about encrypted home folders.
        usr1106 6y ago
        That's ecryptfs. It's no longer supported by newer versions of Ubuntu. The key is not your password. It's somehow protected by a pam module I believe to remember. I once noticed that being root allows you to su into their account, but not decrypting their home directory. So possibly the encryption key is encrypted using the password. One might need the old password to reencrypt the encryption key with the new password. I had no interest to dig deeper, so I am not sure.
        yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  - tommica 6y ago
    Agreed, there is a big difference between recovering root password and recovering root access
laumars 6y ago
In a literal sense you're right but the end result is ostensibly same (ie you've gained root access). Sure the title could have been more accurate but the OPs claim of "false advertising" is just as exaggerative and frankly it's dumb that instead of congratulating someone for a helpful walk-through people are arguing semantics about the fucking title.
- sfj 6y ago
  I was seriously disappointed when I read the article.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - laumars 6y ago
    You might be more experienced than the target audience of that piece. I'm sure there will be people who do find that content useful. It's seriously hard creating useful content and I really do feel like your negativity towards this is excessive compared to the faux pas in question.
    - sfj 6y ago
      My negatively is just my personality. I didn't single this article out. Don't tell me how to be.
      - laumars 6y ago
        Ironically I’ve tried not to be negative towards you (eg saying “you might be more experienced than the target audience”) and you’ve still taken my comments like a personal attack. So imagine how harshly your actual negativity would have been received by the content creator you’ve been targeting. This is why I say it’s hard creating useful content for the web. Everyone is quick to attack but very few people are there to support. It’s a problem we should be even more accurately aware of during these difficult times of being on lockdown. Obviously there will be times when constructive criticisms need to be raised but use of language is important — which I know is the same point you were making at the start but it’s just as relevant to you as it is the author. In fact HNs own policies ask that people write their corrections politely and constructively too.

RECOVERING your password usually means retrieving the plaintext representation. Not just "resetting" it.

zouhair 6y ago

It could also mean recovering the access to root, this is just splitting hair anyway.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
eitland 6y ago
> It could also mean recovering the access to root, No! Even for me as a non native speaker this is obvious since I have worked in the field for a few years. A car is a vehicle but saying that "a vehicle means a car is wrong". In the same way recovering access to the root account might give you the same effect as recovering the password, but often not. This is a situation were correct wording isn't hard and a situation where it matters in my opinion. People come here to learn and we shouldn't mislead them especially when the cost of fixing it is trivial. If I recover the access to root, fine, I have access to that machine. If I recover the root password I have access to all that the root password gives me access to. On systems where for example home or certain configuration files are encrypted using the password as a key (yes, a bit simplified), this is the difference between getting access to the data or not. > this is just splitting hair anyway. No. This is trying to avoid potentially costly misunderstandings.
- laumars 6y ago
  > If I recover the access to root, fine, I have access to that machine. > If I recover the root password I have access to all that the root password gives me access to. In POSIX that's the same thing.
  - eitland 6y ago
    That might technically be true, but as far as I know, with my setup, if I reset my Linux password and use the new password to access my account, my data will be gone as the home folder encryption key was encrypted with my password or something to that effect. Now I cannot say for sure that this is possible on the root account as well - I've hardly used the actual root account since Ubuntu taught me otherwise in 2006 - but I see no obvious reason why you shouldn't be able to encrypt roots home folder the same way we encrypt other home folders. I'm interested in knowing though in case I'm missing something.
    - laumars 6y ago
      If you’re encrypting your whole disk (encrypting /root doesn’t give you any benefit) then you will need to enter your passphrase before your system gets as far as reading /etc/shadow. So that guide basically assumes you either already know your decryption passphrase or you don’t have full disk encryption. In either case, changing roots password wouldn’t lock you out of the root file system
      - eitland 6y ago
        > If you’re encrypting your whole disk Not what I am talking about. I'm talking about encrypted home folders.
        usr1106 6y ago
        That's ecryptfs. It's no longer supported by newer versions of Ubuntu. The key is not your password. It's somehow protected by a pam module I believe to remember. I once noticed that being root allows you to su into their account, but not decrypting their home directory. So possibly the encryption key is encrypted using the password. One might need the old password to reencrypt the encryption key with the new password. I had no interest to dig deeper, so I am not sure.
        yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
- tommica 6y ago
  Agreed, there is a big difference between recovering root password and recovering root access

laumars 6y ago

In a literal sense you're right but the end result is ostensibly same (ie you've gained root access). Sure the title could have been more accurate but the OPs claim of "false advertising" is just as exaggerative and frankly it's dumb that instead of congratulating someone for a helpful walk-through people are arguing semantics about the fucking title.

sfj 6y ago
I was seriously disappointed when I read the article.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- laumars 6y ago
  You might be more experienced than the target audience of that piece. I'm sure there will be people who do find that content useful. It's seriously hard creating useful content and I really do feel like your negativity towards this is excessive compared to the faux pas in question.
  - sfj 6y ago
    My negatively is just my personality. I didn't single this article out. Don't tell me how to be.
    - laumars 6y ago
      Ironically I’ve tried not to be negative towards you (eg saying “you might be more experienced than the target audience”) and you’ve still taken my comments like a personal attack. So imagine how harshly your actual negativity would have been received by the content creator you’ve been targeting. This is why I say it’s hard creating useful content for the web. Everyone is quick to attack but very few people are there to support. It’s a problem we should be even more accurately aware of during these difficult times of being on lockdown. Obviously there will be times when constructive criticisms need to be raised but use of language is important — which I know is the same point you were making at the start but it’s just as relevant to you as it is the author. In fact HNs own policies ask that people write their corrections politely and constructively too.