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This is kind of my point. Instead of just accepting that web programming is rapidly evolving, a developer just says "I'm not going to learn this". And that's c

This is kind of my point. Instead of just accepting that web programming is rapidly evolving, a developer just says "I'm not going to learn this". And that's completely fine. It's definitely a choice. What I'm saying is that it's not difficult to learn. It's a cognizant choice that learning isn't worth the effort.

realtalk_sp 6y ago
> It's a cognizant choice that learning isn't worth the effort. They're very often not wrong. If you're trying to optimize for learning new concepts instead of new implementations (particularly when said implementations are ephemeral), then the right choice is usually to ignore the latest stuff unless it becomes an absolute necessity to adopt it. And most 'cutting edge' frameworks can be picked up in around a week or two once you have experience anyway. I remember it taking me about 4 working days to get the hang of RoR (with ~2 yrs of professional experience). Most developers would be better served spending their time learning soft skills around productivity, networking/politicking, communication, writing, and otherwise living well-balanced lives with the rest of their time. Hell even doing Leetcode is probably a better use of time than picking up the latest framework.
Brian_K_White 6y ago
What the developer is saying is you can do a perpetually shallow crap job in a new context for every job, it's definitely a choice. Or you can do a deep not-crap job in a context you've actually invested time and experience in.
- codyswann 6y ago
  If the developer chooses to do a shallow crap job, then sure. But that's the developer's choice, not the programming language's.
  - Brian_K_White 6y ago
    That's all you got? Developer should just be sophisticated and experienced in every new thing immediately? We can all get by and pick up anything well enough to do a functional job, and we can all apply some bits of general experience in any language or other domain. But you confuse that with an actually good job? I submit that you just outed youself as never having done an actually good job.

realtalk_sp 6y ago

> It's a cognizant choice that learning isn't worth the effort. They're very often not wrong. If you're trying to optimize for learning new concepts instead of new implementations (particularly when said implementations are ephemeral), then the right choice is usually to ignore the latest stuff unless it becomes an absolute necessity to adopt it. And most 'cutting edge' frameworks can be picked up in around a week or two once you have experience anyway. I remember it taking me about 4 working days to get the hang of RoR (with ~2 yrs of professional experience). Most developers would be better served spending their time learning soft skills around productivity, networking/politicking, communication, writing, and otherwise living well-balanced lives with the rest of their time. Hell even doing Leetcode is probably a better use of time than picking up the latest framework.

Brian_K_White 6y ago

What the developer is saying is you can do a perpetually shallow crap job in a new context for every job, it's definitely a choice. Or you can do a deep not-crap job in a context you've actually invested time and experience in.

codyswann 6y ago
If the developer chooses to do a shallow crap job, then sure. But that's the developer's choice, not the programming language's.
- Brian_K_White 6y ago
  That's all you got? Developer should just be sophisticated and experienced in every new thing immediately? We can all get by and pick up anything well enough to do a functional job, and we can all apply some bits of general experience in any language or other domain. But you confuse that with an actually good job? I submit that you just outed youself as never having done an actually good job.