5 ms·

System76 if you're reading this, please hire a new design team that is on par with Apple, Google, IBM, etc. and a new industrial design team that has competence

System76 if you're reading this, please hire a new design team that is on par with Apple, Google, IBM, etc. and a new industrial design team that has competence at the level of Bang & Olufsen, Apple, Braun, etc. System76 has such a huge potential but their marketing and design is lacking severely. You guys need to realize that great companies such as Apple have a certain design ethos(some people resonate with it and some don't, but they have a very strong design language) and it comes from the top-down. Steve Jobs had a deep sense of appreciation for Japanese architecture, IBM in the 60's had hired Elliot Noyes, and Braun was aesthetically lead by Dieter Rams. IBM Thinkpads had hired IDEO design and bunch of high class firms to design their products. Nikon hired Pinin Ferrina. Study the history of hardware companies and what made them great. System76 has the potential to be the most amazing linux-based computer company in the world - but they don't have the right type of leadership. Leadership needs to have good "taste".

camelCaseCamel 6y ago
Yes and please release something like the Lemur Pro with a 4K or at least a WQHD display.
- mcv 6y ago
  4K is overkill on a laptop. I recently got a 15" Thinkpad with a 4K screen, and while it looks gorgeous, I doubt I'd notice the difference with QHD. Though QHD is definitely an upgrade compared to FHD.
Klonoar 6y ago
I'll be the first in line to say that, in general, Linux/OSS-centric companies never get this right. But this is just such a strange thing to say: "System76 if you're reading this, please hire a new design team that is on par with Apple, Google, IBM, etc. and a new industrial design team that has competence at the level of Bang & Olufsen, Apple, Braun, etc." That is not only absurdly expensive, it disregards the actual situation: open source work in general suffers from a lack of designers willing to be involved. If this was a simple thing to do, I'd wager System76 would have already done it. On a personal note, I'd much rather they get to a point where they're fashioning their own hardware... otherwise I'm staying on a Macbook, because I'm not going back to plastic shells. The software design can wait, it's not like it hasn't already done so for years.
- fermienrico 6y ago
  It is not absurdly expensive to hire a design firm to do a project for you. Especially for a company such as System76. >> That is not only absurdly expensive, it disregards the actual situation: open source work in general suffers from a lack of designers willing to be involved. If this was a simple thing to do, I'd wager System76 would have already done it. I seriously doubt any statements that claim "if they could, they would have done" when it comes to great design in software or hardware. It essentially boils down to what the leadership thinks - if they think design service/teams are a cost center, forget about it. It will never ever improve. If the founders and the leaders of the company think that design is a core aspect of what they do and it should be part of everything at the company - from letterpads, to building design, to how they write and speak - then there is no way they cannot succeed.
- fredoliveira 6y ago
  Judging by the brands GP was suggesting, my assumption is that they are looking for the exact same thing you are - better hardware design, rather than UI design.
- rpdillon 6y ago
  > because I'm not going back to plastic shells I'm intensely curious about this stance. Apple popularized the aluminum case in laptops, and having owned a dozen each of aluminum and plastic/carbon fiber notebooks, aluminum is just... worse. It's heavier, more expensive, and every substantial impact is a permanent mar on the finish. Why is non-plastic so necessary? What advantage is there?
  - Klonoar 6y ago
    Plastic feels cheap and shoddy. Macbooks (and such laptops) feel premium, and I want a premium product. I don't care about the price for a device I live with and work on daily. The weight doesn't bother me, and in fact I _prefer_ it having some body to it. Regarding impact... my 2015MBP doesn't look a day old. It's tanked hits that would break other laptops.
rocky1138 6y ago
It sounds like you might not be the target market for System76 computers. They're targeting developers with Pop_OS and are doing a fantastic job with that market. Personally, I don't want them to broaden their horizons. There is already Apple if people want to buy a computer like an Apple.
- isantop 6y ago
  System76 employee/Pop dev here > There is already Apple if people want to buy a computer like an Apple. 100%. If what you want is an Apple computer, I promise we won't be offended if you buy an Apple computer.
azdle 6y ago
> ${small company with small company sized bank account} if you're reading this, please hire a new design team that is on par with ${list of massive companies with oodles of money} and a new industrial design team that has competence at the level of ${companies that are the best in the world at industrial design and compensate to match} lol, I'm sure they'd love to, are you offering to pay the salaries?
- fermienrico 6y ago
  It costs $100K to hire IDEO design guys. That's not a lot of money for a company like System76.
  - pkaye 6y ago
    How much work will IDEO do for $100k?
  - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
    I was initially skeptical of that claim, but it looks like [1] System76 are a million dollar company, which is great! That said, "hiring IDEO" is not a one-and-done sort of affair, you can hire great designers to do some work for you, but they want to keep getting paid as you have them work on more stuff. 1: https://incfact.com/company/system76-denver-co/ https://incfact.com/company/system76-denver-co/
  - mastax 6y ago
    and then $1M++ to design parts, molds, fixtures, machine processes, finishes, coatings, and QA for the new custom chassis. Using ODM standard designs is the only practical thing to do at small volume.
modernerd 6y ago
This seems unfair. I really like System76 design. They do a great job at making Linux systems seem friendly and worthy of consideration as Mac/Windows replacements, especially for a small company. I also find their website much easier to use than Dell’s or Lenovo’s, and their branding and copywriting has more personality. On the hardware front, their upcoming in-house laptop project will be worth keeping an eye on. It will start to give them more design flexibility over their current range (which is not designed in-house): https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/system76-will-start-designing-and-building-its-own-linux-laptops-beginning-january-2020/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/syste...
qchris 6y ago
Just as a counterpoint, I like System76's design choices. I've used Pop!_OS on my personal computer, and I consistently use it professionally because of how nicely it works for getting CUDA running on NVIDIA-enabled systems. I definitely prefer it over stock Ubuntu. Keeping GNOME for switching between workspaces but hiding the application bar by default makes the most of smaller screens is great. The combination of flat graphics, clean lines, geometric design notes, and color scheme choices resonates nicely with me. I haven't had a lot of experience with their hardware, but I also think the choices in the Thelio line of desktops (which I believe the only product they have full manufacturing and discretion over) seemed really nice with the wood accent and low-key etchings on the metal.
codesections 6y ago
I'm curious to know more about what you mean by this. Are you referring to marketing material like this release announcement? If so, this seems pretty polished to me, and easily on par with other computer companies; I'd be interested to hear what you feel is lacking. If you mean the design of the hardware, I'd be interested to hear what you dislike about the Thelio – the reviews I've read have generally evaluated it as one of the best designed/most distinctive/prettiest desktops on the market. (If you mean their current laptops then, yeah, those aren't designed in particular. But presumably that will change when they start designing/manufacturing those themselves instead of reselling Clevo/etc)
ntnsndr 6y ago
I disagree. I have a Thelio and now a Lemur Pro, and the distinctiveness of S76 design is one of the great pleasures for me. It's quirky, geeky, and fun. It's decidedly not the kind of thing you'd get from a minimalist corporate giant. It's what you'd get from a company making computers out of their factory in Denver, hiring local geeks. If you get the chance (post-corona), stop by the factory, meet the lead designer Kate, and be amazed. She's a visionary.
rpdillon 6y ago
I strongly disagree. System76 has, to my eyes, the perfect design aesthetic. They make reasonable and practical trades on build quality vs. price, and have a strict form-follows-function ethos with Pop!_OS that I just adore. They are an oasis in a desert of navel-gazing design coming out of Apple and Microsoft designed to coerce users into behavior that yields more revenue. It would be a tragedy for me if System76 were to follow that path.
isantop 6y ago
Aesthetics are subjective. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

camelCaseCamel 6y ago

Yes and please release something like the Lemur Pro with a 4K or at least a WQHD display.

mcv 6y ago
4K is overkill on a laptop. I recently got a 15" Thinkpad with a 4K screen, and while it looks gorgeous, I doubt I'd notice the difference with QHD. Though QHD is definitely an upgrade compared to FHD.

Klonoar 6y ago

I'll be the first in line to say that, in general, Linux/OSS-centric companies never get this right. But this is just such a strange thing to say: "System76 if you're reading this, please hire a new design team that is on par with Apple, Google, IBM, etc. and a new industrial design team that has competence at the level of Bang & Olufsen, Apple, Braun, etc." That is not only absurdly expensive, it disregards the actual situation: open source work in general suffers from a lack of designers willing to be involved. If this was a simple thing to do, I'd wager System76 would have already done it. On a personal note, I'd much rather they get to a point where they're fashioning their own hardware... otherwise I'm staying on a Macbook, because I'm not going back to plastic shells. The software design can wait, it's not like it hasn't already done so for years.

fermienrico 6y ago
It is not absurdly expensive to hire a design firm to do a project for you. Especially for a company such as System76. >> That is not only absurdly expensive, it disregards the actual situation: open source work in general suffers from a lack of designers willing to be involved. If this was a simple thing to do, I'd wager System76 would have already done it. I seriously doubt any statements that claim "if they could, they would have done" when it comes to great design in software or hardware. It essentially boils down to what the leadership thinks - if they think design service/teams are a cost center, forget about it. It will never ever improve. If the founders and the leaders of the company think that design is a core aspect of what they do and it should be part of everything at the company - from letterpads, to building design, to how they write and speak - then there is no way they cannot succeed.
fredoliveira 6y ago
Judging by the brands GP was suggesting, my assumption is that they are looking for the exact same thing you are - better hardware design, rather than UI design.
rpdillon 6y ago
> because I'm not going back to plastic shells I'm intensely curious about this stance. Apple popularized the aluminum case in laptops, and having owned a dozen each of aluminum and plastic/carbon fiber notebooks, aluminum is just... worse. It's heavier, more expensive, and every substantial impact is a permanent mar on the finish. Why is non-plastic so necessary? What advantage is there?
- Klonoar 6y ago
  Plastic feels cheap and shoddy. Macbooks (and such laptops) feel premium, and I want a premium product. I don't care about the price for a device I live with and work on daily. The weight doesn't bother me, and in fact I _prefer_ it having some body to it. Regarding impact... my 2015MBP doesn't look a day old. It's tanked hits that would break other laptops.

rocky1138 6y ago

It sounds like you might not be the target market for System76 computers. They're targeting developers with Pop_OS and are doing a fantastic job with that market. Personally, I don't want them to broaden their horizons. There is already Apple if people want to buy a computer like an Apple.

isantop 6y ago
System76 employee/Pop dev here > There is already Apple if people want to buy a computer like an Apple. 100%. If what you want is an Apple computer, I promise we won't be offended if you buy an Apple computer.

azdle 6y ago

> ${small company with small company sized bank account} if you're reading this, please hire a new design team that is on par with ${list of massive companies with oodles of money} and a new industrial design team that has competence at the level of ${companies that are the best in the world at industrial design and compensate to match} lol, I'm sure they'd love to, are you offering to pay the salaries?

fermienrico 6y ago
It costs $100K to hire IDEO design guys. That's not a lot of money for a company like System76.
- pkaye 6y ago
  How much work will IDEO do for $100k?
- blacksmith_tb 6y ago
  I was initially skeptical of that claim, but it looks like [1] System76 are a million dollar company, which is great! That said, "hiring IDEO" is not a one-and-done sort of affair, you can hire great designers to do some work for you, but they want to keep getting paid as you have them work on more stuff. 1: https://incfact.com/company/system76-denver-co/ https://incfact.com/company/system76-denver-co/
- mastax 6y ago
  and then $1M++ to design parts, molds, fixtures, machine processes, finishes, coatings, and QA for the new custom chassis. Using ODM standard designs is the only practical thing to do at small volume.

modernerd 6y ago

This seems unfair. I really like System76 design. They do a great job at making Linux systems seem friendly and worthy of consideration as Mac/Windows replacements, especially for a small company. I also find their website much easier to use than Dell’s or Lenovo’s, and their branding and copywriting has more personality. On the hardware front, their upcoming in-house laptop project will be worth keeping an eye on. It will start to give them more design flexibility over their current range (which is not designed in-house): https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/system76-will-start-designing-and-building-its-own-linux-laptops-beginning-january-2020/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/syste...

qchris 6y ago

Just as a counterpoint, I like System76's design choices. I've used Pop!_OS on my personal computer, and I consistently use it professionally because of how nicely it works for getting CUDA running on NVIDIA-enabled systems. I definitely prefer it over stock Ubuntu. Keeping GNOME for switching between workspaces but hiding the application bar by default makes the most of smaller screens is great. The combination of flat graphics, clean lines, geometric design notes, and color scheme choices resonates nicely with me. I haven't had a lot of experience with their hardware, but I also think the choices in the Thelio line of desktops (which I believe the only product they have full manufacturing and discretion over) seemed really nice with the wood accent and low-key etchings on the metal.

codesections 6y ago

I'm curious to know more about what you mean by this. Are you referring to marketing material like this release announcement? If so, this seems pretty polished to me, and easily on par with other computer companies; I'd be interested to hear what you feel is lacking. If you mean the design of the hardware, I'd be interested to hear what you dislike about the Thelio – the reviews I've read have generally evaluated it as one of the best designed/most distinctive/prettiest desktops on the market. (If you mean their current laptops then, yeah, those aren't designed in particular. But presumably that will change when they start designing/manufacturing those themselves instead of reselling Clevo/etc)

ntnsndr 6y ago

I disagree. I have a Thelio and now a Lemur Pro, and the distinctiveness of S76 design is one of the great pleasures for me. It's quirky, geeky, and fun. It's decidedly not the kind of thing you'd get from a minimalist corporate giant. It's what you'd get from a company making computers out of their factory in Denver, hiring local geeks. If you get the chance (post-corona), stop by the factory, meet the lead designer Kate, and be amazed. She's a visionary.

rpdillon 6y ago

I strongly disagree. System76 has, to my eyes, the perfect design aesthetic. They make reasonable and practical trades on build quality vs. price, and have a strict form-follows-function ethos with Pop!_OS that I just adore. They are an oasis in a desert of navel-gazing design coming out of Apple and Microsoft designed to coerce users into behavior that yields more revenue. It would be a tragedy for me if System76 were to follow that path.

isantop 6y ago

Aesthetics are subjective. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯