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IMO, this is where regulation and government come into play. Some things aren't ever going to be profitable if built and managed for the long run. These are t

IMO, this is where regulation and government come into play. Some things aren't ever going to be profitable if built and managed for the long run. These are things that should be government services. Other things can be profitable but need to be those doing them need to be persuaded to do them in a prosocial fashion. This is can be done by internalizing externalities. Negative externalities appear as taxes or fees, and positive ones as subsidies. Particularly harmful actions may be flat out forbidden, with stronger disincentives attached. The problem with this approach is that any significant regulatory system will have such a large economic impact that for many players, the most cost effective approach to regulation is cooption of the regulatory system.

nickff 6y ago
The government doesn't seem to be very good at long-term programs either. One example is ITER. Fusion power would be a fantastic low-pollution energy source. It is something that seemed achievable with a long-term commitment to research and development. Governments have been doing that for 50 years, and appear to be getting nowhere.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > Governments have been doing that for 50 years, and appear to be getting nowhere. Perhaps it is simply very difficult, or even impossible.
BurningFrog 6y ago
Government is far worse than the private sector at long term planning. Mostly, governments optimize for things to look good on the next election day. With 4 year terms, that's an average 2 years planning horizon.
- pbourke 6y ago
  > Government is far worse than the private sector at long term planning. How many public companies have needed bailouts after spending most of their profits on stock buybacks, again? > Mostly, governments optimize for things to look good on the next election day. With 4 year terms, that's an average 2 years planning horizon. As opposed to public companies and the quarterly earnings cycle?
  - AbrahamParangi 6y ago
    Bailouts are public failures, not private failures. Businesses are doing what they should in fighting tooth and nail to survive. The market is doing what it should in killing businesses too stupid or greedy to survive. It is the government doing the wrong thing by saving the incompetent. If the government bails out idiots, what's the point in being smart?
    - Ygg2 6y ago
      Bailouts are public. But that doesn't mean there aren't bailouts of private sector. If government doesn't bailout idiots like e.g. private banks, their entire economy can collapse. That means no pensions, no jobs, and destroyed economy.
      - kwhitefoot 6y ago
        Governments could bail out the victims instead, that is the pensioners, the employees.
        Ygg2 6y ago
        That's true, however it's both easier and politicaly good move to bail out banks. Easier because you don't have to see who had which plan and how to bail out each person on it. Plus banks are both more powerful and easier to return the favor than the victims.
    - domador 6y ago
      Are airlines idiots? Aren't they more like victims of extremely unfortunate circumstances? Do we want to lose commercial air travel for a few years? If airlines are worth helping out and saving, then maybe so are certain other businesses. While we're at it, let's work on toning down the greed part, which as it is was already destroying society even before this crisis.
      - AbrahamParangi 6y ago
- mistermann 6y ago
  Democratic governments. China seems to have a decent strategy going.
  - nickff 6y ago
    Are you talking about the strategy of a country which enabled the global pandemic we are all currently suffering through? The one that first tried to ignore the problem, then tried to cover it up, and has subsequently been lying about it? Ignorance followed by suppression and deceit is definitely a course of action, though I don't agree that it's a great strategy.
    - mistermann 6y ago
      Yes, that's the China I'm talking about. I think you might be on a bit of a different tangent that the context of the comment I'm replying to though.
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    Non democratic systems fail in other ways, but it's true that they don't have the next election to worry about, and they can have a longer planning horizon. The planning usually benefits the ruling elite more than the people, but it's still a real point. The astonishing rise of China last 30 years has made me accept that it can actually work out occasionally!

nickff 6y ago

The government doesn't seem to be very good at long-term programs either. One example is ITER. Fusion power would be a fantastic low-pollution energy source. It is something that seemed achievable with a long-term commitment to research and development. Governments have been doing that for 50 years, and appear to be getting nowhere.

kwhitefoot 6y ago
> Governments have been doing that for 50 years, and appear to be getting nowhere. Perhaps it is simply very difficult, or even impossible.

BurningFrog 6y ago

Government is far worse than the private sector at long term planning. Mostly, governments optimize for things to look good on the next election day. With 4 year terms, that's an average 2 years planning horizon.

pbourke 6y ago
> Government is far worse than the private sector at long term planning. How many public companies have needed bailouts after spending most of their profits on stock buybacks, again? > Mostly, governments optimize for things to look good on the next election day. With 4 year terms, that's an average 2 years planning horizon. As opposed to public companies and the quarterly earnings cycle?
- AbrahamParangi 6y ago
  Bailouts are public failures, not private failures. Businesses are doing what they should in fighting tooth and nail to survive. The market is doing what it should in killing businesses too stupid or greedy to survive. It is the government doing the wrong thing by saving the incompetent. If the government bails out idiots, what's the point in being smart?
  - Ygg2 6y ago
    Bailouts are public. But that doesn't mean there aren't bailouts of private sector. If government doesn't bailout idiots like e.g. private banks, their entire economy can collapse. That means no pensions, no jobs, and destroyed economy.
    - kwhitefoot 6y ago
      Governments could bail out the victims instead, that is the pensioners, the employees.
      - Ygg2 6y ago
        That's true, however it's both easier and politicaly good move to bail out banks. Easier because you don't have to see who had which plan and how to bail out each person on it. Plus banks are both more powerful and easier to return the favor than the victims.
  - domador 6y ago
    Are airlines idiots? Aren't they more like victims of extremely unfortunate circumstances? Do we want to lose commercial air travel for a few years? If airlines are worth helping out and saving, then maybe so are certain other businesses. While we're at it, let's work on toning down the greed part, which as it is was already destroying society even before this crisis.
    - AbrahamParangi 6y ago
mistermann 6y ago
Democratic governments. China seems to have a decent strategy going.
- nickff 6y ago
  Are you talking about the strategy of a country which enabled the global pandemic we are all currently suffering through? The one that first tried to ignore the problem, then tried to cover it up, and has subsequently been lying about it? Ignorance followed by suppression and deceit is definitely a course of action, though I don't agree that it's a great strategy.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    Yes, that's the China I'm talking about. I think you might be on a bit of a different tangent that the context of the comment I'm replying to though.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  Non democratic systems fail in other ways, but it's true that they don't have the next election to worry about, and they can have a longer planning horizon. The planning usually benefits the ruling elite more than the people, but it's still a real point. The astonishing rise of China last 30 years has made me accept that it can actually work out occasionally!