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So you're probably very against Reddit then? Reddit is inherently feudal in the same way: someone creates a subreddit over which they have near total power and

So you're probably very against Reddit then? Reddit is inherently feudal in the same way: someone creates a subreddit over which they have near total power and loyal subjects are allowed to subscribe and post at the grace of the moderator lords.

mdszy 6y ago
Except there's nothing stopping you from creating your own subreddit. There's no limit to them. In Urbit and Feudal systems, there's an idea of there being 1. A limited amount of land/resources 2. Some barrier to entry to getting them. In Urbit, there are a set, fixed number of "galaxies" (similar to subreddits in your example) that have all already been given out. Planets themselves cost money and there's an exchange for them (https://urbit.live/ https://urbit.live/) Reddit isn't a comparison at all. There are very many examples of communities whose users got sick of the moderators of their subreddits so they split off and created a new community.
- creddit 6y ago
  There are fixed number of subreddits as the names are limited in length. So their revenue model is selling their product instead of selling ads and that's the bad part? Also, they're open source right so you can just run your own: https://github.com/urbit/urbit https://github.com/urbit/urbit Super evil stuff here.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    As long as it’s voluntary, I wouldn’t call it evil. I also have no idea why you’d want to participate in such a system, but you do you. The idea that limited string length makes reddit a feudal system is not a believable argument. I’d let that one go.
    - creddit 6y ago
      > As long as it’s voluntary, I wouldn’t call it evil. I also have no idea why you’d want to participate in such a system, but you do you. Agreed 100%. The product, as best as I grok it, is totally garbage. But, that wasn't what was being said. What was being said was "Urbit is Nazi trash" and "Ubrit is feudal in nature and therefore bad". This kind of totalitarian thought policing is what is bad. The nature of Reddit is very much so Feudal in all the same senses as Urbit except that Urbit is much more explicitly limited in the number of polities that can be created. Subreddits are inherently feudal in the exact same way in that some set of lords (moderators) have control over what happens in their domain (subreddit). Who can become a lord (redditors with X amount of Karma) is limited and so are subreddits, thought the limit is so large it's not really a practical limit. The principals are the same, still, so arguing against Urbit for being bad because of this nature is mostly if not entirely wrong. The reality is these arguments are more about moralizing than the actuality of what is presented.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        You’re mixing your metaphors. Are lords people with karma, or are they moderators? Those are not the same groups, at all, with moderators typically having lower karma than top posters. Secondly Reddit has no real hierarchy that’s built in. It’s true that there are a limited amount of resources, but being early gives you no particular right the creation of any new resources, nor does it obligate any new joiner to participate in any particular subreddit. New subreddits created by new redditors regularly surpass old subreddits, undermining the concept of there being a heirarchy. Compare that to Urbit, where there is an explicit heirarchy. You’re either a galaxy, a star, or a planet. Each level is responsible for distributing the addresses below it, and has some level of control over them too, and if I’m reading this correctly has the right to collect taxes as well. This is explicitly Feudal, and in fact the original code names for these were “lords”, “dukes”, and “earls”. Finally, Yarvin considers himself an absolute monarchist, and thinks that American democracy should be scratched and replaced with a totalitarian government. It’s not surprising that he’d build a system filled with references to his preferred political structure.
        creddit 6y ago
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mdszy 6y ago

Except there's nothing stopping you from creating your own subreddit. There's no limit to them. In Urbit and Feudal systems, there's an idea of there being 1. A limited amount of land/resources 2. Some barrier to entry to getting them. In Urbit, there are a set, fixed number of "galaxies" (similar to subreddits in your example) that have all already been given out. Planets themselves cost money and there's an exchange for them (https://urbit.live/ https://urbit.live/) Reddit isn't a comparison at all. There are very many examples of communities whose users got sick of the moderators of their subreddits so they split off and created a new community.

creddit 6y ago
There are fixed number of subreddits as the names are limited in length. So their revenue model is selling their product instead of selling ads and that's the bad part? Also, they're open source right so you can just run your own: https://github.com/urbit/urbit https://github.com/urbit/urbit Super evil stuff here.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  As long as it’s voluntary, I wouldn’t call it evil. I also have no idea why you’d want to participate in such a system, but you do you. The idea that limited string length makes reddit a feudal system is not a believable argument. I’d let that one go.
  - creddit 6y ago
    > As long as it’s voluntary, I wouldn’t call it evil. I also have no idea why you’d want to participate in such a system, but you do you. Agreed 100%. The product, as best as I grok it, is totally garbage. But, that wasn't what was being said. What was being said was "Urbit is Nazi trash" and "Ubrit is feudal in nature and therefore bad". This kind of totalitarian thought policing is what is bad. The nature of Reddit is very much so Feudal in all the same senses as Urbit except that Urbit is much more explicitly limited in the number of polities that can be created. Subreddits are inherently feudal in the exact same way in that some set of lords (moderators) have control over what happens in their domain (subreddit). Who can become a lord (redditors with X amount of Karma) is limited and so are subreddits, thought the limit is so large it's not really a practical limit. The principals are the same, still, so arguing against Urbit for being bad because of this nature is mostly if not entirely wrong. The reality is these arguments are more about moralizing than the actuality of what is presented.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      You’re mixing your metaphors. Are lords people with karma, or are they moderators? Those are not the same groups, at all, with moderators typically having lower karma than top posters. Secondly Reddit has no real hierarchy that’s built in. It’s true that there are a limited amount of resources, but being early gives you no particular right the creation of any new resources, nor does it obligate any new joiner to participate in any particular subreddit. New subreddits created by new redditors regularly surpass old subreddits, undermining the concept of there being a heirarchy. Compare that to Urbit, where there is an explicit heirarchy. You’re either a galaxy, a star, or a planet. Each level is responsible for distributing the addresses below it, and has some level of control over them too, and if I’m reading this correctly has the right to collect taxes as well. This is explicitly Feudal, and in fact the original code names for these were “lords”, “dukes”, and “earls”. Finally, Yarvin considers himself an absolute monarchist, and thinks that American democracy should be scratched and replaced with a totalitarian government. It’s not surprising that he’d build a system filled with references to his preferred political structure.
      - creddit 6y ago

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