6 ms·

This is where the continental european model of the university is so much better than the anglo-american one. Universities should be about coursework and resea

This is where the continental european model of the university is so much better than the anglo-american one. Universities should be about coursework and research, that's it. Dorms, dining halls, gyms, social clubs, sports etc. are not part of the university's mission

vzidex 6y ago
I disagree with you, however one aspect of the continental European model that I admire is the close integration between post-secondary education and industry. One of my cousins - who studied and now lives in Germany - did his Masters and PhD on the topic of work he was doing while working at <large car manufacturer>, where he still works today. On the other hand, from my understanding such close integration between advanced degrees and industry is less common in North America - to my disappointment.
- MatthiasP 6y ago
  This is not as common as you might think. Some universities do closely collaborate with their regional industry, but the vast majority of master thesis have zero practical application, just like in the US.
  - zhdc1 6y ago
    It generally depends on where the funding comes from, at least from what I've seen. Chairs or individual projects that are funded by industry generally hand walk graduate students through partner-sponsored topics.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  I feel like engineering and graduate education are linked in the US too. I've worked for many large companies where staff were also Ph.D students using their work as their thesis. Granted, every one of these companies were European, and I worked in R&D labs. But I suspect this is reasonably common in engineering.
- zwieback 6y ago
  I did graduate work at Fraunhofer in Germany, which straddles academia and industry. It's a model that could be employed more in the US, I think. I work at hp in the US now and we fund a lot of very small projects, effectively paying for some graduate students we like, but nothing at a large scale.
bambataa 6y ago
I've never understood why students would even want the college to be so involved in their student life. Allocate some buildings to the student body, get them to organise themselves and throw a bit of a cash at them. I think that's a good balance. I studied at a university with quite a focus on "college life" and it was nice to feel part of something but we didn't need to organise our social lives.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > I've never understood why students would even want the college to be so involved in their student life. If I understand the American system, there is pressure from parents as well. The students might not want the college to be so involved in their student life, but many parents would be unwilling to allow their children to attend an institution that is not highly focused on keeping them safe, to the point of treating adults as children. Rules requiring you to live on campus for the first 1–2 years, college-organized sober social activities, mental-health personnel on university staff, etc. is all meant to say “See, parents, your kid is safe with us.”
  - kazen44 6y ago
    which is just weird because well, at around the age of 18, most people should be able to handle themselves and they are not children anymore.
    - Loughla 6y ago
      Should and can are two different things in the real world. We can idealize what people should do, or we can work with what they can do. Not both.
      - bambataa 6y ago
        Any normal 18 year old should be able to look after feeding themselves. Yes, they might eat crap for a while but that is part of the process.
  - 6y ago
zwieback 6y ago
I went to university in Germany (ME, Stuttgart) my kids are attending public universities in Oregon. I get exactly what you're saying, when I walk across the OSU campus I'm amazed at how beautiful everything is made for the students life. THe flipside is that many labs are underequipped. We have to face the fact that colleges in the US are providing lifestyle at least as much as education. However, when kids and parents pick colleges they decide it's worth it, otherwise everyone would be going to community colleges.
- Loughla 6y ago
  Many, many students choose those schools specifically because of the 'lifestyle' they offer. You are solidly correct. What everyone seems to be missing in this thread is that those things only exist because people want them. I work for a bare-bones community college. We're less than 1/8th the cost of the closest large state school. And people choose to go there, and pay 8x more than they would at our institution because of dorm life, student life, and club opportunities. Like it or don't, schools are only responding to what students want. There is obviously bloat in administration at schools - anywhere with a bureaucracy will (in my opinion) have that. But all of the other 'fun' things are because some students made a stink about wanting them.

vzidex 6y ago

I disagree with you, however one aspect of the continental European model that I admire is the close integration between post-secondary education and industry. One of my cousins - who studied and now lives in Germany - did his Masters and PhD on the topic of work he was doing while working at <large car manufacturer>, where he still works today. On the other hand, from my understanding such close integration between advanced degrees and industry is less common in North America - to my disappointment.

MatthiasP 6y ago
This is not as common as you might think. Some universities do closely collaborate with their regional industry, but the vast majority of master thesis have zero practical application, just like in the US.
- zhdc1 6y ago
  It generally depends on where the funding comes from, at least from what I've seen. Chairs or individual projects that are funded by industry generally hand walk graduate students through partner-sponsored topics.
mywittyname 6y ago
I feel like engineering and graduate education are linked in the US too. I've worked for many large companies where staff were also Ph.D students using their work as their thesis. Granted, every one of these companies were European, and I worked in R&D labs. But I suspect this is reasonably common in engineering.
zwieback 6y ago
I did graduate work at Fraunhofer in Germany, which straddles academia and industry. It's a model that could be employed more in the US, I think. I work at hp in the US now and we fund a lot of very small projects, effectively paying for some graduate students we like, but nothing at a large scale.

bambataa 6y ago

I've never understood why students would even want the college to be so involved in their student life. Allocate some buildings to the student body, get them to organise themselves and throw a bit of a cash at them. I think that's a good balance. I studied at a university with quite a focus on "college life" and it was nice to feel part of something but we didn't need to organise our social lives.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> I've never understood why students would even want the college to be so involved in their student life. If I understand the American system, there is pressure from parents as well. The students might not want the college to be so involved in their student life, but many parents would be unwilling to allow their children to attend an institution that is not highly focused on keeping them safe, to the point of treating adults as children. Rules requiring you to live on campus for the first 1–2 years, college-organized sober social activities, mental-health personnel on university staff, etc. is all meant to say “See, parents, your kid is safe with us.”
- kazen44 6y ago
  which is just weird because well, at around the age of 18, most people should be able to handle themselves and they are not children anymore.
  - Loughla 6y ago
    Should and can are two different things in the real world. We can idealize what people should do, or we can work with what they can do. Not both.
    - bambataa 6y ago
      Any normal 18 year old should be able to look after feeding themselves. Yes, they might eat crap for a while but that is part of the process.
- 6y ago

zwieback 6y ago

I went to university in Germany (ME, Stuttgart) my kids are attending public universities in Oregon. I get exactly what you're saying, when I walk across the OSU campus I'm amazed at how beautiful everything is made for the students life. THe flipside is that many labs are underequipped. We have to face the fact that colleges in the US are providing lifestyle at least as much as education. However, when kids and parents pick colleges they decide it's worth it, otherwise everyone would be going to community colleges.

Loughla 6y ago
Many, many students choose those schools specifically because of the 'lifestyle' they offer. You are solidly correct. What everyone seems to be missing in this thread is that those things only exist because people want them. I work for a bare-bones community college. We're less than 1/8th the cost of the closest large state school. And people choose to go there, and pay 8x more than they would at our institution because of dorm life, student life, and club opportunities. Like it or don't, schools are only responding to what students want. There is obviously bloat in administration at schools - anywhere with a bureaucracy will (in my opinion) have that. But all of the other 'fun' things are because some students made a stink about wanting them.