4 ms·

Nah, most people are caught in bullshit jobs that wouldn't matter if they went away. Consider, we're more or less just as busy now as our grandparents a 100 yea

Nah, most people are caught in bullshit jobs that wouldn't matter if they went away. Consider, we're more or less just as busy now as our grandparents a 100 years ago, despite massive improvements in computers, manufacturing, agriculture, etc. etc.. We have to work because not working would be socially unacceptable, not because we actually provide anything of value.

luckylion 6y ago
That depends on what you value, I believe. Yes, we can provide the 1800 quality of life to everyone by mostly automation. The issue is that very few are content with that, they want the 2020 version.
- viklove 6y ago
  The issue is we're preserving jobs like coal mining just so people can have a job to get a paycheck. If we can automate those jobs (or make them obsolete with solar power), what's the value in stopping those peoples' paychecks? Oh right, the fat cats have got to get fatter, can't have anyone eating and having a roof over their head without back-breaking labor to accompany it.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    We'll need to fully replace them first, but even then, I don't think it's a significant number. In the US, there are about 50k workers left in the mining industry, and other advanced nations mirror that. I'm not a fan of keeping coal mining around, but I don't believe it's a large issue, and I do believe that this is mostly a safety system. If all else fails due to some disaster, war or alien attack, you want to have the ability to scale coal mining back up. That'll only work if you retain the know how and technology.
    - viklove 6y ago
      The transportation industry accounts for 4M jobs across the US, what do you think will happen to those people once driving is automated? Some billionaire will collect their paychecks and they'll be left to starve.
- heipei 6y ago
  That is a question I've been asking myself a lot: What is the cause and what the effect? Do people really want a new expensive car every 3-5 years and are willing to part with a lot of their income to do it? Or do most people simply never ponder the possibility of working less or retiring earlier, and as a result make their "mandatory work time" more enjoyable by consuming? I'd wager that more often than not it's the latter. The third option is that they realise the option to work less but are afraid that they'd feel less valuable to society or wouldn't know what to do with themselves and thus wilfully work full-time (and consume to match).
  - luckylion 6y ago
    It's probably a mix. Plenty of people have children and want to provide them a safe and strong launchpad, and "cut back hours and enjoy life" won't do that. Consumption and status symbols are part of the game, though I don't think it's really a question of buying a new car every few years for average people, that's out of reach for a large part of society. You don't need to play the game, but being inside the game also provides security. Humans are very social, the odd outlier that prefers his own company and is happy to trade comfort and safety for simplicity and freedom really is an exception.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  They don't want that 2020 lifestyle by accident, it takes a massive effort to persuade them.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    I don't know that it does, I believe it mostly takes knowledge of the possibilities to want them. Of course, nobody wants the negative aspects, burnout, depression, obesity etc, but few people need convincing when it's about a car that will help you drive. In fact, I believe that e.g. privacy concerns or an animosity towards "comfort technology" (as in "siri, switch off the lights") is something few people have intuitively. Accepting what makes life easier is the default state.
    - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      If you take cars as an example the need to move around comfortably is available quite cheaply. What we have got though is an onslaught of marketing encouraging us to thing of a vehicle as part of our identity and status. New tail fins making us think our current model is obsolete. Advertising implying that we aren't a good parent if we don't have a new German car. Product placement telling us suave British spies all drive Aston Martins. The car market is the furthest thing from utility.
      - luckylion 6y ago
        Oh certainly, there's plenty of useless differentiators between brands, but it takes little convincing to want a car as a concept. People who don't want cars generally do so because of environmental concerns, not because they don't see a value in comfortably and quickly moving around over long distances, protected from the elements and with the ability to also transport other people or lots of goods.

luckylion 6y ago

That depends on what you value, I believe. Yes, we can provide the 1800 quality of life to everyone by mostly automation. The issue is that very few are content with that, they want the 2020 version.

viklove 6y ago
The issue is we're preserving jobs like coal mining just so people can have a job to get a paycheck. If we can automate those jobs (or make them obsolete with solar power), what's the value in stopping those peoples' paychecks? Oh right, the fat cats have got to get fatter, can't have anyone eating and having a roof over their head without back-breaking labor to accompany it.
- luckylion 6y ago
  We'll need to fully replace them first, but even then, I don't think it's a significant number. In the US, there are about 50k workers left in the mining industry, and other advanced nations mirror that. I'm not a fan of keeping coal mining around, but I don't believe it's a large issue, and I do believe that this is mostly a safety system. If all else fails due to some disaster, war or alien attack, you want to have the ability to scale coal mining back up. That'll only work if you retain the know how and technology.
  - viklove 6y ago
    The transportation industry accounts for 4M jobs across the US, what do you think will happen to those people once driving is automated? Some billionaire will collect their paychecks and they'll be left to starve.
heipei 6y ago
That is a question I've been asking myself a lot: What is the cause and what the effect? Do people really want a new expensive car every 3-5 years and are willing to part with a lot of their income to do it? Or do most people simply never ponder the possibility of working less or retiring earlier, and as a result make their "mandatory work time" more enjoyable by consuming? I'd wager that more often than not it's the latter. The third option is that they realise the option to work less but are afraid that they'd feel less valuable to society or wouldn't know what to do with themselves and thus wilfully work full-time (and consume to match).
- luckylion 6y ago
  It's probably a mix. Plenty of people have children and want to provide them a safe and strong launchpad, and "cut back hours and enjoy life" won't do that. Consumption and status symbols are part of the game, though I don't think it's really a question of buying a new car every few years for average people, that's out of reach for a large part of society. You don't need to play the game, but being inside the game also provides security. Humans are very social, the odd outlier that prefers his own company and is happy to trade comfort and safety for simplicity and freedom really is an exception.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
They don't want that 2020 lifestyle by accident, it takes a massive effort to persuade them.
- luckylion 6y ago
  I don't know that it does, I believe it mostly takes knowledge of the possibilities to want them. Of course, nobody wants the negative aspects, burnout, depression, obesity etc, but few people need convincing when it's about a car that will help you drive. In fact, I believe that e.g. privacy concerns or an animosity towards "comfort technology" (as in "siri, switch off the lights") is something few people have intuitively. Accepting what makes life easier is the default state.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    If you take cars as an example the need to move around comfortably is available quite cheaply. What we have got though is an onslaught of marketing encouraging us to thing of a vehicle as part of our identity and status. New tail fins making us think our current model is obsolete. Advertising implying that we aren't a good parent if we don't have a new German car. Product placement telling us suave British spies all drive Aston Martins. The car market is the furthest thing from utility.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      Oh certainly, there's plenty of useless differentiators between brands, but it takes little convincing to want a car as a concept. People who don't want cars generally do so because of environmental concerns, not because they don't see a value in comfortably and quickly moving around over long distances, protected from the elements and with the ability to also transport other people or lots of goods.