4 ms·

I am almost 40, and I fully expect this to be my last software development job. Likewise, I've never had a negative performance review and am usually the top ta

I am almost 40, and I fully expect this to be my last software development job. Likewise, I've never had a negative performance review and am usually the top task-killer and bug-destroyer; but when recruiters call and find out I'm married with kids they can't seem to hang up fast enough. I'm saving as much as I can. The end is nigh.

Symbiote 7y ago
> married with kids Can't you just lie about this? It's none of their business. Or tell white lies -- kids, but "pretty old" or "at college" or whatever.
- dleslie 7y ago
  I make it a habit of trying not to be dishonest. :)
  - swader999 7y ago
    Them asking is unethical, illegal in some jurisdictions.
  - mypalmike 7y ago
    It's not legal for prospective employers to ask you these kinds of questions. If you're talking about your wife and kids during the interview process, you're doing it wrong. My last round of interviews was at age 46. Went from being (voluntarily) unemployed to a FAANG job. I had to do the same stuff the 20-somethings do: practiced hackerrank, answered stupid whiteboard dynamic programming questions that have nothing to do with the job, etc. But at no time did I talk about my personal life with anyone involved in hiring.
    - dleslie 7y ago
      They can ask related questions which might reveal this information. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23031508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23031508
      - mypalmike 7y ago
        Do people really ask about hobbies? In actual professional job interviews? The other questions only lead to answers that involve your personal life if you choose to talk about your personal life. Job interviews are professional negotiation, not chats with friends. Where do you see yourself professionally in 5 years? Why would you mention your family? Asking if you're willing to put in lots of overtime should be a red flag for a job at any age, and answering it shouldn't involve mentioning your kids. Can you work in the US? Maybe there's issues where the answer varies based on marital status...
        dleslie 7y ago
        Hobbies? Of course, particularly in entertainment software. It shows if you have a unique perspective that could be advantageous to the creative process. I would mention my family for any professional prediction because it is a guiding factor; in five years, I see myself continuing to be a product lead and hopefully working with my daughters on an independent project of their own. I work in entertainment software, in British Columbia; overtime is normal, working 40h a week or less is not. The BC NDP stripped tech workers of their basic employment rights, around two decades ago; among those rights removed was any right to overtime compensation. I can't work in the USA _easily_ and I would _prefer_ not to; I have no interest in raising my kids there. But I've worked from home for five years and so I don't see why I should have to relocate. :P
        mypalmike 7y ago
        Asking a candidate's hobbies is a recipe for pure unconscious bias. It immediately hooks into your preconceptions about the type of person you'd expect a snowboarder/surfer/sewing enthusiast/furry/birdwatcher/lego collector/"I don't really have any hobbies besides programming"/whatever to be. There are better ways to get a glimpse at culture fit and creativity. When I was younger and working in game development, I probably got asked about hobbies. Nowadays I'm generally pretty good at directing conversations like that politely back on track. As for mentioning something you want to do with your kids in 5 years? In a job interview? I don't understand it but I suppose some people want to talk about their home lives during job interviews. And thanks for reminding me one of the reasons I left game development. I don't miss having just work/work balance. :-)
devnullbyte 7y ago
Dam dude, what sort of people are you working with or interviewing for, that they see having a wife or family as a negative? That's just crazy. Is this valley based start ups or something of that ilk?
adamparsons 7y ago
I often wonder if it’s because they know you’ll have a healthy work/life balance and say no to ridiculous “we’re all in this together” pressures to work well past what’s in your contract, and hence aren’t as attractive for them to promise to employers looking for Ferrari’s on a ford budget
swader999 7y ago
I don't understand why marriage or dependants would come up. If anything these two life changes forced me to take my career and profession a lot more seriously.
- dleslie 7y ago
  Any number of ways: - What are your hobbies? - What drives you? - Where do you see yourself in five years? - Would you be willing to work long hours often? - Can you work in the USA? And so on. There's so many questions that are legal to ask but for which an honest answer would reveal private information.
lotash 7y ago
Are you sure that's the reason? I work in the Bay Area, most people at the company have kids. They're all productive.
- dleslie 7y ago
  Part of it is that I don't live in California, and the tech culture where I am (Vancouver, BC) and the industry I prefer (Entertainment) is somewhat different.
duggan 7y ago
> when recruiters call and find out I'm married with kids they can't seem to hang up fast enough. I don't really understand why this would be the case. From a purely practical standpoint, people loaded up with a family are more likely to stay and perform in a job for income stability. I guess if a company is looking for people to burn through like firewood this might not be the case, but I think those are the places you want to avoid anyway!

Symbiote 7y ago

> married with kids Can't you just lie about this? It's none of their business. Or tell white lies -- kids, but "pretty old" or "at college" or whatever.

dleslie 7y ago
I make it a habit of trying not to be dishonest. :)
- swader999 7y ago
  Them asking is unethical, illegal in some jurisdictions.
- mypalmike 7y ago
  It's not legal for prospective employers to ask you these kinds of questions. If you're talking about your wife and kids during the interview process, you're doing it wrong. My last round of interviews was at age 46. Went from being (voluntarily) unemployed to a FAANG job. I had to do the same stuff the 20-somethings do: practiced hackerrank, answered stupid whiteboard dynamic programming questions that have nothing to do with the job, etc. But at no time did I talk about my personal life with anyone involved in hiring.
  - dleslie 7y ago
    They can ask related questions which might reveal this information. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23031508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23031508
    - mypalmike 7y ago
      Do people really ask about hobbies? In actual professional job interviews? The other questions only lead to answers that involve your personal life if you choose to talk about your personal life. Job interviews are professional negotiation, not chats with friends. Where do you see yourself professionally in 5 years? Why would you mention your family? Asking if you're willing to put in lots of overtime should be a red flag for a job at any age, and answering it shouldn't involve mentioning your kids. Can you work in the US? Maybe there's issues where the answer varies based on marital status...
      - dleslie 7y ago
        Hobbies? Of course, particularly in entertainment software. It shows if you have a unique perspective that could be advantageous to the creative process. I would mention my family for any professional prediction because it is a guiding factor; in five years, I see myself continuing to be a product lead and hopefully working with my daughters on an independent project of their own. I work in entertainment software, in British Columbia; overtime is normal, working 40h a week or less is not. The BC NDP stripped tech workers of their basic employment rights, around two decades ago; among those rights removed was any right to overtime compensation. I can't work in the USA _easily_ and I would _prefer_ not to; I have no interest in raising my kids there. But I've worked from home for five years and so I don't see why I should have to relocate. :P
        mypalmike 7y ago
        Asking a candidate's hobbies is a recipe for pure unconscious bias. It immediately hooks into your preconceptions about the type of person you'd expect a snowboarder/surfer/sewing enthusiast/furry/birdwatcher/lego collector/"I don't really have any hobbies besides programming"/whatever to be. There are better ways to get a glimpse at culture fit and creativity. When I was younger and working in game development, I probably got asked about hobbies. Nowadays I'm generally pretty good at directing conversations like that politely back on track. As for mentioning something you want to do with your kids in 5 years? In a job interview? I don't understand it but I suppose some people want to talk about their home lives during job interviews. And thanks for reminding me one of the reasons I left game development. I don't miss having just work/work balance. :-)

devnullbyte 7y ago

Dam dude, what sort of people are you working with or interviewing for, that they see having a wife or family as a negative? That's just crazy. Is this valley based start ups or something of that ilk?

adamparsons 7y ago

I often wonder if it’s because they know you’ll have a healthy work/life balance and say no to ridiculous “we’re all in this together” pressures to work well past what’s in your contract, and hence aren’t as attractive for them to promise to employers looking for Ferrari’s on a ford budget

swader999 7y ago

I don't understand why marriage or dependants would come up. If anything these two life changes forced me to take my career and profession a lot more seriously.

dleslie 7y ago
Any number of ways: - What are your hobbies? - What drives you? - Where do you see yourself in five years? - Would you be willing to work long hours often? - Can you work in the USA? And so on. There's so many questions that are legal to ask but for which an honest answer would reveal private information.

lotash 7y ago

Are you sure that's the reason? I work in the Bay Area, most people at the company have kids. They're all productive.

dleslie 7y ago
Part of it is that I don't live in California, and the tech culture where I am (Vancouver, BC) and the industry I prefer (Entertainment) is somewhat different.

duggan 7y ago

> when recruiters call and find out I'm married with kids they can't seem to hang up fast enough. I don't really understand why this would be the case. From a purely practical standpoint, people loaded up with a family are more likely to stay and perform in a job for income stability. I guess if a company is looking for people to burn through like firewood this might not be the case, but I think those are the places you want to avoid anyway!