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Most deaths in most countries are in nursing homes. Do we not care if older people die?

throwaway0a5e 7y ago
We care, but we care less than if people with their whole life ahead of them die. That's the whole point of YPLL and other age adjusted metric that the scientist and academics who study disease, pollution, etc. use.
jacobush 7y ago
UK also shut down fairly hard and that still didn't stop the spread in nursing homes. So lockdown does not automatically seem to stop the contagion from coming into nursing homes. Makes sense really. Maybe a focused effort should be made to protect nursing homes.
- daleharvey 7y ago
  The UK did not shut down very hard nor early, New Zealands recently "relaxed" lockdown is basically the same has what the UK has been under
- pjc50 7y ago
  The UK shut down too late. People at the time of the Cheltenham Festival (10-13 March) were saying it shouldn't have happened, and now: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/29/racing-ireland-chief-says-cheltenham-festival-should-probably-not-have-taken-place-horse-racing https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/29/racing-ireland...
aga98mtl 7y ago
I think the point was that the total death count at this time is related with the size of nursing homes. Norway has numerous very small nursing home. Sweden has very big nursing home. All over the world we see that big nursing homes are impossible to protect. Belgium locked down harder than Sweden but has the worst stats in Europe. The nursing home death are often 80% to 90% of all death. COVID-19 is bad, but if you exclude the nursing homes from the stats it doesnt justify the lockdown damage. Is there a realistic plan to isolate big nursing homes somewhere?
giantDinosaur 7y ago
Given that basically nobody wants to end up in a nursing home, but do, often to face neglect and abuse, I'd say that no, we don't really care what happens to old people in nursing homes. Out of sight, out of mind. Yeah, sure, people with a lot of moral indignation will gnash their teeth at such a claim, but I just can't see how they're actually good places to be, and how if we really cared we'd structure our society in a way that makes them necessary.
tomatotomato37 7y ago
You don't have to do a full lockdown if you just want to protect nursing homes; isolation of just the nursing homes/other high-risk concentrated populations would have the same effect on those inside
- pjc50 7y ago
  And their staff. And all family members of their staff. It's not "impossible", but I don't think any countries have attempted such a nursing-home-only lockdown.

We care, but we care less than if people with their whole life ahead of them die. That's the whole point of YPLL and other age adjusted metric that the scientist and academics who study disease, pollution, etc. use.

jacobush 7y ago

UK also shut down fairly hard and that still didn't stop the spread in nursing homes. So lockdown does not automatically seem to stop the contagion from coming into nursing homes. Makes sense really. Maybe a focused effort should be made to protect nursing homes.

daleharvey 7y ago
The UK did not shut down very hard nor early, New Zealands recently "relaxed" lockdown is basically the same has what the UK has been under
pjc50 7y ago
The UK shut down too late. People at the time of the Cheltenham Festival (10-13 March) were saying it shouldn't have happened, and now: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/29/racing-ireland-chief-says-cheltenham-festival-should-probably-not-have-taken-place-horse-racing https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/29/racing-ireland...

aga98mtl 7y ago

I think the point was that the total death count at this time is related with the size of nursing homes. Norway has numerous very small nursing home. Sweden has very big nursing home. All over the world we see that big nursing homes are impossible to protect. Belgium locked down harder than Sweden but has the worst stats in Europe. The nursing home death are often 80% to 90% of all death. COVID-19 is bad, but if you exclude the nursing homes from the stats it doesnt justify the lockdown damage. Is there a realistic plan to isolate big nursing homes somewhere?

giantDinosaur 7y ago

Given that basically nobody wants to end up in a nursing home, but do, often to face neglect and abuse, I'd say that no, we don't really care what happens to old people in nursing homes. Out of sight, out of mind. Yeah, sure, people with a lot of moral indignation will gnash their teeth at such a claim, but I just can't see how they're actually good places to be, and how if we really cared we'd structure our society in a way that makes them necessary.

tomatotomato37 7y ago

You don't have to do a full lockdown if you just want to protect nursing homes; isolation of just the nursing homes/other high-risk concentrated populations would have the same effect on those inside

pjc50 7y ago
And their staff. And all family members of their staff. It's not "impossible", but I don't think any countries have attempted such a nursing-home-only lockdown.