4 ms·

> which happened because the people found them to be better than the alternative Walled garden only exists because mobile devices make self-install alternative

> which happened because the people found them to be better than the alternative Walled garden only exists because mobile devices make self-install alternatives very difficult or impossible to get on purpose, otherwise they would not be able to compete in any ways. Case in point, the Mac App Store and the Windows Store are both moderate failures despite a lot of technical & marketing push.

pjmlp 7y ago
Which is why with every macOS and Windows release there is some small fine tuning to drive the herd into the sandboxing model. Like frogs cooking in water, macOS and Windows users will be eventually realize that all their apps are store based as well. And for everything else they get Web apps, including AAA games.
- bathtub365 7y ago
  Which AAA games are web apps?
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    The ones being served by Stadia, xCloud, GeForce NOW and PS Now. Plenty to choose from.
    - bathtub365 7y ago
      That's a pretty loose definition of a web app, but I agree that those services are pretty poor.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Well, one needs a browser to access them....
        bathtub365 7y ago
        I guess I’m splitting hairs. At least these systems aren’t the only delivery method for games, but who knows what will happen in the future.
    - Razengan 7y ago
      I don't know anybody nor recall seeing more than a handful of mentions online of anyone getting their playtime via those services.
      - catalogia 7y ago
        The only demographic that matters in the long run is the youngest demographic, and that demographic is the most likely to own/use very underpowered hardware (Since they don't have their own money to spend on nicer hardware. Often they use hardware issued to them by their schools, or hand-me-down hardware from older siblings or their parents.) The specific implementations of Stadia/etc may not prove successful, but eventually I expect a service like this to overtake the alternatives for very young users, and subsequently, achieve dominance when those young users come to view those services as normal and familiar.
  - m4rtink 7y ago
    Kantai Collection ? ;-)
- dathinab 7y ago
  The sandbox isn't the problem. The missing authority the user has over it is. E.g. you can have no wallet gardens but still sandbox every single application (which btw. I would prefer).
Razengan 7y ago
Most of the apps on my Mac are from the App Store and I wish all of them were. The Mac App Store is not a failure from the user side, it's where users would look first. Nobody wants to have to go to different websites/repositories every N days to update all of their apps/drivers, or put up with spam from 10 different update notification mechanisms. I still remember that hell from barely 12 years ago. Why do you think gamers flocked to Steam? As a developer, it's more of a failure of Apple's dismal documentation; I -want- my product to be a nicely sandboxed, well-behaved citizen that only accesses exactly just what it needs, but the state of macOS API documentation was too grim to learn how to do that the last time I tried (like "security bookmarks" and "file providers" from a relatively-simple Swift app).
- chacha2 7y ago
  You don't need a walled garden for that, a unified update api would suffice.
  - paulryanrogers 7y ago
    So much this. Linux distros with popular package managers offer official and 3rd party sources through one API. It's a dream compared to Windows and Mac IMO
    - wsc981 7y ago
      Homebrew on macOS is nice though, both for installing tools as well as apps (homebrew cask [0]). --- [0]: https://formulae.brew.sh/cask/ https://formulae.brew.sh/cask/
ycombi3 7y ago
I'd say that they are more than moderate failures. I've heard from many acquaintances who aren't as tech literate as myself that one of the major reasons they got rid of their iPhone was not being able to install applications from outside sources. Myself, I would never want to trust anything centralized.
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  Clearly the iPhone is a massive failure and everyone is getting rid of theirs. In what country are you seeing this?
  - ycombi3 7y ago
    I never said it was a massive failure, but many people have switched over the years to some form of Android after getting fed up.
    - jtbayly 7y ago
      >>I'd say that they are more than moderate failures. So... major failure? Is that what's in between moderate and massive? If so, I'd love to have a major failure. :)
      - ycombi3 7y ago
        Meaning the central stores they attempt to force on us, not the devices themselves.
- Razengan 7y ago
  > Myself, I would never want to trust anything centralized. How is that different from trusting multiple sources? You'd just be multiplying your concerns. Any of them could slip in some malware. The only advantage I can think of is censorship resistance, or access to older versions and discontinued products.
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago

pjmlp 7y ago

Which is why with every macOS and Windows release there is some small fine tuning to drive the herd into the sandboxing model. Like frogs cooking in water, macOS and Windows users will be eventually realize that all their apps are store based as well. And for everything else they get Web apps, including AAA games.

bathtub365 7y ago
Which AAA games are web apps?
- pjmlp 7y ago
  The ones being served by Stadia, xCloud, GeForce NOW and PS Now. Plenty to choose from.
  - bathtub365 7y ago
    That's a pretty loose definition of a web app, but I agree that those services are pretty poor.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Well, one needs a browser to access them....
      - bathtub365 7y ago
        I guess I’m splitting hairs. At least these systems aren’t the only delivery method for games, but who knows what will happen in the future.
  - Razengan 7y ago
    I don't know anybody nor recall seeing more than a handful of mentions online of anyone getting their playtime via those services.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      The only demographic that matters in the long run is the youngest demographic, and that demographic is the most likely to own/use very underpowered hardware (Since they don't have their own money to spend on nicer hardware. Often they use hardware issued to them by their schools, or hand-me-down hardware from older siblings or their parents.) The specific implementations of Stadia/etc may not prove successful, but eventually I expect a service like this to overtake the alternatives for very young users, and subsequently, achieve dominance when those young users come to view those services as normal and familiar.
- m4rtink 7y ago
  Kantai Collection ? ;-)
dathinab 7y ago
The sandbox isn't the problem. The missing authority the user has over it is. E.g. you can have no wallet gardens but still sandbox every single application (which btw. I would prefer).

Razengan 7y ago

Most of the apps on my Mac are from the App Store and I wish all of them were. The Mac App Store is not a failure from the user side, it's where users would look first. Nobody wants to have to go to different websites/repositories every N days to update all of their apps/drivers, or put up with spam from 10 different update notification mechanisms. I still remember that hell from barely 12 years ago. Why do you think gamers flocked to Steam? As a developer, it's more of a failure of Apple's dismal documentation; I -want- my product to be a nicely sandboxed, well-behaved citizen that only accesses exactly just what it needs, but the state of macOS API documentation was too grim to learn how to do that the last time I tried (like "security bookmarks" and "file providers" from a relatively-simple Swift app).

chacha2 7y ago
You don't need a walled garden for that, a unified update api would suffice.
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  So much this. Linux distros with popular package managers offer official and 3rd party sources through one API. It's a dream compared to Windows and Mac IMO
  - wsc981 7y ago
    Homebrew on macOS is nice though, both for installing tools as well as apps (homebrew cask [0]). --- [0]: https://formulae.brew.sh/cask/ https://formulae.brew.sh/cask/

ycombi3 7y ago

I'd say that they are more than moderate failures. I've heard from many acquaintances who aren't as tech literate as myself that one of the major reasons they got rid of their iPhone was not being able to install applications from outside sources. Myself, I would never want to trust anything centralized.

tinus_hn 7y ago
Clearly the iPhone is a massive failure and everyone is getting rid of theirs. In what country are you seeing this?
- ycombi3 7y ago
  I never said it was a massive failure, but many people have switched over the years to some form of Android after getting fed up.
  - jtbayly 7y ago
    >>I'd say that they are more than moderate failures. So... major failure? Is that what's in between moderate and massive? If so, I'd love to have a major failure. :)
    - ycombi3 7y ago
      Meaning the central stores they attempt to force on us, not the devices themselves.
Razengan 7y ago
> Myself, I would never want to trust anything centralized. How is that different from trusting multiple sources? You'd just be multiplying your concerns. Any of them could slip in some malware. The only advantage I can think of is censorship resistance, or access to older versions and discontinued products.
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago