6 ms·

At least Apple doesn’t serve you malware or harvest your personal data for profit.

realusername 6y ago
I think that's the only positive thing I can say about them yes.
lern_too_spel 6y ago
On the contrary, Apple has served malware to far more users than Google despite having far fewer total users. https://blog.lookout.com/xcodeghost-apps https://blog.lookout.com/xcodeghost-apps Apple also uses your GPS data to update its location service (for profit), and unlike Android offers no way to opt out — if you want to get your location on an iDevice, Apple will get it, too. If you want to do something crazy like write apps for your own device without having to reinstall weekly, you have to deanonymize yourself with payment.
- realusername 6y ago
  That's interesting to know, I was originally convinced by their marketing claiming the walled garden was at least helping a bit for security purpose but even that seems false.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    It happened because developers in China were using a hacked version of XCode. The apps never escaped the sandbox. I have no idea how Apple makes money by collecting location data.
    - realusername 6y ago
      I separate their concept of the sandbox (app permissions) from the walled garden (the App Store & the lockdown of user install). You can totally have a sandbox without a walled garden. It seems that in this case, the walled garden did not help in any ways.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        This is all the apps could do. The malware removes information off the device like the device’s name, country, and unique identifiers. This part is complete conjecture. According to Palo Alto Networks, it may also have the ability to push dialogue boxes to your iPhone or iPad’s screen. Theoretically, a bad guy could use one of these dialogues to steal your username and password or other personal information. The malware may also be able to open websites in your mobile browser, which could be used for a variety of malicious purposes again including phishing and installing other potentially malicious software.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - ship_it 6y ago
      > developers in China were using a hacked version of XCode Can you give us more details on this? Interested.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/novel-malware-xcodeghost-modifies-xcode-infects-apple-ios-apps-and-hits-app-store/ https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/novel-malware-xcodeghost...
        ship_it 6y ago
        Oh, I remember this. I forgot it too easily. Fun times.
- dTal 6y ago
  >unlike Android offers no way to opt out — if you want to get your location on an iDevice, Apple will get it, too. As far as I know there is not a way to opt out of this in (Googlified) Android. If you have Play Services installed (which you do, unless you've taken unreasonable steps to avoid it such as rooting and installing a 3rd party ROM), you get a dialog box popup whenever you enable location services which informs you that Google will be watching (it's framed as a consent dialog, but if you decline then location services will not be enabled). And you need location services even to use the GPS.
  - literallycancer 6y ago
    If you don't like Google, installing a community ROM that doesn't violate your privacy would be perfectly reasonable. If you want a megacorp service but not from a megacorp, I think you won't find that anywhere.
    - dathinab 6y ago
      But then all banking apps stop working (including the 2FA apps "required" for using credit cards from some EU Banks; for EC cards you luckily still can use ChipTAN). Also mobile payment will stop working, normally I wouldn't care about that but currently paying without touching anything is nice. Then some apps you need for work might stop working. Not even speaking about hounded of other apps. The problem is to many app depend strongly on Google services which are not part of Android itself but shipped with every Google Android phone. And to many institutions except you to either have a Google Android phone or a iPhone. I could get away most of the time with a non Google Android phone but I will would need a second Google Android phone like 5 times a month or so.
      - BenjiWiebe 6y ago
        Not true. With things like magisk and systemless root, the banking apps continue to work. At least my 4-5 banking/payment/credit card apps all work, with lineageos and magisk.
sneak 6y ago
Apps in the iOS App Store are allowed to embed silent spying that you can't disable (also known as spyware) that upload your location and activity data to third parties without your consent. You're deemed to have agreed to this as a user based on the App Store Terms of Service. Don't buy Apple's lies about privacy. It's just marketing.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  The user decides if an app has access to his location.
  - sneak 6y ago
    Yes, but the permission is per-app. Let’s say I approve location for the app because the app’s function requires it: the third party spying SDKs embedded in the app send that location data off to third parties without notifying me or permitting me to stop it. Apple permits this behavior in the App Store. Furthermore, IP address is coarse location even if you don’t grant the app permission, via GeoIP databases. Long story short, Apple allows apps in the store to embed silent, nonconsensual spyware that you can’t disable.
    - matchbok 6y ago
      That's not how it works. If you install the app you are giving permission to the app to use your location however they want. It is pretty explicit. From a legal perspective they are supposed to indicate as such in their terms and conditions, which you are supposed to read.
    - anhner 6y ago
      If an app's function requires location, how is it Apple's fault that the user decides it's better to enable that app to spy on him? If I use Waze do I expect privacy from it when it's essential that it knows my location? Furthermore, on iPhone you get a warning when an app abuses the location permission, unlike Android. At least on iPhones you have per app control, on Android it's either "location on" or "location off"

I think that's the only positive thing I can say about them yes.

On the contrary, Apple has served malware to far more users than Google despite having far fewer total users. https://blog.lookout.com/xcodeghost-apps https://blog.lookout.com/xcodeghost-apps Apple also uses your GPS data to update its location service (for profit), and unlike Android offers no way to opt out — if you want to get your location on an iDevice, Apple will get it, too. If you want to do something crazy like write apps for your own device without having to reinstall weekly, you have to deanonymize yourself with payment.

realusername 6y ago
That's interesting to know, I was originally convinced by their marketing claiming the walled garden was at least helping a bit for security purpose but even that seems false.
- scarface74 6y ago
  It happened because developers in China were using a hacked version of XCode. The apps never escaped the sandbox. I have no idea how Apple makes money by collecting location data.
  - realusername 6y ago
    I separate their concept of the sandbox (app permissions) from the walled garden (the App Store & the lockdown of user install). You can totally have a sandbox without a walled garden. It seems that in this case, the walled garden did not help in any ways.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      This is all the apps could do. The malware removes information off the device like the device’s name, country, and unique identifiers. This part is complete conjecture. According to Palo Alto Networks, it may also have the ability to push dialogue boxes to your iPhone or iPad’s screen. Theoretically, a bad guy could use one of these dialogues to steal your username and password or other personal information. The malware may also be able to open websites in your mobile browser, which could be used for a variety of malicious purposes again including phishing and installing other potentially malicious software.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - ship_it 6y ago
    > developers in China were using a hacked version of XCode Can you give us more details on this? Interested.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/novel-malware-xcodeghost-modifies-xcode-infects-apple-ios-apps-and-hits-app-store/ https://unit42.paloaltonetworks.com/novel-malware-xcodeghost...
      - ship_it 6y ago
        Oh, I remember this. I forgot it too easily. Fun times.
dTal 6y ago
>unlike Android offers no way to opt out — if you want to get your location on an iDevice, Apple will get it, too. As far as I know there is not a way to opt out of this in (Googlified) Android. If you have Play Services installed (which you do, unless you've taken unreasonable steps to avoid it such as rooting and installing a 3rd party ROM), you get a dialog box popup whenever you enable location services which informs you that Google will be watching (it's framed as a consent dialog, but if you decline then location services will not be enabled). And you need location services even to use the GPS.
- literallycancer 6y ago
  If you don't like Google, installing a community ROM that doesn't violate your privacy would be perfectly reasonable. If you want a megacorp service but not from a megacorp, I think you won't find that anywhere.
  - dathinab 6y ago
    But then all banking apps stop working (including the 2FA apps "required" for using credit cards from some EU Banks; for EC cards you luckily still can use ChipTAN). Also mobile payment will stop working, normally I wouldn't care about that but currently paying without touching anything is nice. Then some apps you need for work might stop working. Not even speaking about hounded of other apps. The problem is to many app depend strongly on Google services which are not part of Android itself but shipped with every Google Android phone. And to many institutions except you to either have a Google Android phone or a iPhone. I could get away most of the time with a non Google Android phone but I will would need a second Google Android phone like 5 times a month or so.
    - BenjiWiebe 6y ago
      Not true. With things like magisk and systemless root, the banking apps continue to work. At least my 4-5 banking/payment/credit card apps all work, with lineageos and magisk.

sneak 6y ago

Apps in the iOS App Store are allowed to embed silent spying that you can't disable (also known as spyware) that upload your location and activity data to third parties without your consent. You're deemed to have agreed to this as a user based on the App Store Terms of Service. Don't buy Apple's lies about privacy. It's just marketing.

tinus_hn 6y ago
The user decides if an app has access to his location.
- sneak 6y ago
  Yes, but the permission is per-app. Let’s say I approve location for the app because the app’s function requires it: the third party spying SDKs embedded in the app send that location data off to third parties without notifying me or permitting me to stop it. Apple permits this behavior in the App Store. Furthermore, IP address is coarse location even if you don’t grant the app permission, via GeoIP databases. Long story short, Apple allows apps in the store to embed silent, nonconsensual spyware that you can’t disable.
  - matchbok 6y ago
    That's not how it works. If you install the app you are giving permission to the app to use your location however they want. It is pretty explicit. From a legal perspective they are supposed to indicate as such in their terms and conditions, which you are supposed to read.
  - anhner 6y ago
    If an app's function requires location, how is it Apple's fault that the user decides it's better to enable that app to spy on him? If I use Waze do I expect privacy from it when it's essential that it knows my location? Furthermore, on iPhone you get a warning when an app abuses the location permission, unlike Android. At least on iPhones you have per app control, on Android it's either "location on" or "location off"