3 ms·
> Of course the “masks don’t work” was pure, transparent, bullshit from the very beginning. It didn’t even pass the smell test. No, that's not true. Maybe the
by ardy42 7y ago
> Of course the “masks don’t work” was pure, transparent, bullshit from the very beginning. It didn’t even pass the smell test.
No, that's not true. Maybe the advice was wrong, but it wasn't "pure, transparent, bullshit." It was always clearly stated that N95s worked if worn properly, but there was a lot of debate if surgical masks would offer much protection or not (they're known to be inadequate for certain viruses). Especially early on, people didn't understand much about this virus, such as the particle sizes involved or if asymptomatic transmission was real or not. There were a lot of factors to weigh in the recommendation in an environment of uncertainty.
> Now if the argument was “please save masks for healthcare workers first, they’re higher risk” that would be fine.
They did make that argument:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-dont-have-to-wear-facemasks-because-of-coronavirus-2020-01-30 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-don...
> Most people don’t know how to use face masks correctly, and a rush to buy masks could prevent the people who need them most — health care providers — from getting them, said Dr. Amesh Adalja, a scholar at the Center for Health Security at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
> In fact the U.S. surgeon general recently urged the public to “STOP BUYING MASKS!” “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!,” wrote Surgeon General Jerome Adams on Twitter US:TWTR
> But “they don’t work”? Fuck off.
It's also pretty clear that they were right that tons of people in the general public don't know how to wear masks correctly. I don't go out much, but when I do there's always a bunch of fools wearing N95s improperly (not using both straps, bunching both straps together behind the head, not shaping the noise area to fit the face). I even see people wearing surgical masks improperly (e.g. not covering the nose, not shaping the nose area, not folding out the material to stretch from the nose to under the chin, etc.).
There's also the issue that the general public is unlikely to follow the kinds of rigorous protocols that make N95s effective in a healthcare setting.
- ashtonkem 7y agoThere are two core problems with your argument: 1) Wearing masks is a trainable skill. None of us know how to use condoms initially either, yet literally millions of Americans use them effectively yearly. 2) Masks don’t have to be worn with perfect correctness to produce an effect in aggregate. If mask usage was even 30% effective, this would drop R0 by roughly as much, which is a big freaking deal. The N95 vs surgical mask is a tricky balance to strike; of course N95 should be saved for those at the highest risk, and if you know your mask will be sprayed with virus droplets, extra precautions must be taken. But that’s much more relevant to medical workers, not those of us who want to reduce risk going to the grocery store.
- ardy42 7y ago> Wearing masks is a trainable skill. None of us know how to use condoms initially either, yet literally millions of Americans use them effectively yearly. Not really. Do you have a qualitative fit test handy? Because you need to do a fit test with one to figure out if an N95 you chose actually works properly, even if you're wearing it properly. Healthcare workers are tested, and the kits cost $200 or more. https://www.medline.com/jump/product/x/Z05-PF07344 https://www.medline.com/jump/product/x/Z05-PF07344 https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Qualitative-Fit-Test-Apparatus-FT-30-Bitter-1-EA-Case/?N=5002385+3294795973&rt=rud https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-... > [Surgical] Masks don’t have to be worn with perfect correctness to produce an effect in aggregate. If mask usage was even 30% effective, this would drop R0 by roughly as much, which is a big freaking deal. I think that's why they ended up changing the recommendation.
- ashtonkem 7y agoAnd that’s a really good argument for surgical masks and not N95s; N95s could be used by the public, but given the shortages and the lack of fit tests any gains of N95 over surgical masks, if they exist, are not worth the increased cost and shortage of N95 masks for health care professionals. The problem is that this isn’t the nuance that the Surgeon General or the CDC originally went with. His argument was literally “You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider”, and “STOP BUYING MASKS”, neither of which distinguishes between N95s, surgical masks, and cloth masks.
- LiquidSky 7y agoThis is utter, complete nonsense. Most people don't wash their hands properly either, but we tell people to do it because even washing hands poorly is better than not. Even "fools" wearing masks wrong would help more than not having them at all. The parent is right: was pure, transparent, bullshit. If they were intending to preserve masks for healthcare workers, then just say that. Telling people they don't work was not just stupid, it was dangerous and almost certainly made the situation worse. Don't lie to people about their health.