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No kidding: "the potential for harm reduction for adult smokers while combating underage use." <<insert photo of all the yummy flavors available>> If their m

No kidding: "the potential for harm reduction for adult smokers while combating underage use." <<insert photo of all the yummy flavors available>> If their mandate was really harm reduction they could do that with a "plain" flavor; that's how we stop the kids in my house from eating all the yogurt.

sneak 6y ago
Adults like yummy flavors too. This “flavored products are for kids” is utter nonsense, designed to vilify a new entrant and distract from the continued functioning of the tobacco industry. Smoking kills half its users. It is one of the great tragedies of our time that tobacco companies got vaping lumped in with smoking and its harms, when it is at least two orders of magnitude safer.
- BubRoss 6y ago
  You can't be serious. Juul is not being villified for just having flavors, they are being villified for marketing to kids. https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-congress-e-cigs-target-teens-students-testimony-2019-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-congress-e-cigs-target-... "The memo accused Juul of knowingly marketing products to teens by holding programs at schools and camps and recruiting teens as "Juul influencers."" "The hearing's testimony included claims that a Juul representative once visited a high-school classroom and told students that Juul e-cigarettes were "totally safe," according to a memo from congressional investigators."
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    That’s fair, but then focus on that and not the flavors. I’ll happily continue drinking my fruity loops flavored vodka and enjoying its taste.
  - cactus2093 6y ago
    That doesn’t explain why cities like SF have banned all flavored vapes. Not just juul brand. It clearly is the flavors that people are taking issue with, this marketing thing is just a footnote. So much so that I almost never even hear this incident referenced.
    - sneak 6y ago
      SF hasn’t banned cigarettes, though, which does “explain” it: the ban is not based on rational analysis of public health outcomes.
      - catalogia 6y ago
        SF doesn't need to ban flavored cigarettes because the federal government already has. SF banned flavored vapes because the federal government hasn't (yet.)
        sneak 6y ago
        I didn't say flavored cigarettes, I said cigarettes. While cigarettes are legal, discussion of any vaping regulation is irrelevant.
samatman 6y ago
"plain" flavor vape cartridges would not have gotten me to quit smoking. Fruity mango flavor did. The idea that only children find flavors appealing is asinine, and you should feel shame for participating in a moral panic that is leading directly to cancer and death. What I, a consenting adult, choose to do for recreation and stress relief, is none of your goddamn business, and I suggest you butt out of it.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  I agree with you. People have this weird condescending view towards smokers. Like they see themselves as morally superior beings. It's quite infuriating and you can see that mindset reflect itself in how people approach these topics. Fuck me for enjoying a flavored vice.
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    To be completely objective, cigarettes are dangerous because the concoction of chemicals that generate the smoke lead to lung cancer. Vaping mostly just gives you the Nicotine hit, which doesn’t have the same dangers as tobacco smoke. Of all the vices I ever picked up, vaping has the smallest footprint in terms of character change while consuming it, and long term health consequences. We probably need more studies on standard Nicotine consumption, as it may be in the same class as caffeine dependency: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Nicotine_It_may_have_a_good_side https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Nicotine_I... Now, about the kids. I think they will mostly get high on vape pens. Juul won’t even be there jam honestly.
- dlivingston 6y ago
  I have to admit that I felt a visceral anger reading parent's comment as well. I quit smoking via e-cigarettes and via Tooti Frooti, Tiger's Blood, Fruit Loops and a dozen other "tasty" flavors. A parallel could be made to childhood obesity. Yes, soft drinks contribute, but with parent's logic, all flavored soft drinks should be made illegal in favor of, well, 'plain carbonated water' flavor. Yum! Won't somebody please think of the children! Keep me out of your Orwellian utopia, thanks.
leetcrew 6y ago
> If their mandate was really harm reduction they could do that with a "plain" flavor; that's how we stop the kids in my house from eating all the yogurt. frankly I don't know whether the people at juul had malicious intentions wrt teenage vaping, but I really resent the line of argument that offering enjoyable flavors implies targeting children. this is actually one of the main things that makes vaping a viable substitute for me and many other people. if they only made plain vapes, I would probably just go back to smoking.
asdff 6y ago
Why does yummy booze flavors in arms reach of your toddler in the gas station aisle get a free pass, but juul pods with a surgeon generals warning kept under lock and key behind the shop clerk are targeting children? I can't comprehend these mental gymnastics.

sneak 6y ago

Adults like yummy flavors too. This “flavored products are for kids” is utter nonsense, designed to vilify a new entrant and distract from the continued functioning of the tobacco industry. Smoking kills half its users. It is one of the great tragedies of our time that tobacco companies got vaping lumped in with smoking and its harms, when it is at least two orders of magnitude safer.

BubRoss 6y ago
You can't be serious. Juul is not being villified for just having flavors, they are being villified for marketing to kids. https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-congress-e-cigs-target-teens-students-testimony-2019-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-congress-e-cigs-target-... "The memo accused Juul of knowingly marketing products to teens by holding programs at schools and camps and recruiting teens as "Juul influencers."" "The hearing's testimony included claims that a Juul representative once visited a high-school classroom and told students that Juul e-cigarettes were "totally safe," according to a memo from congressional investigators."
- t-writescode 6y ago
  That’s fair, but then focus on that and not the flavors. I’ll happily continue drinking my fruity loops flavored vodka and enjoying its taste.
- cactus2093 6y ago
  That doesn’t explain why cities like SF have banned all flavored vapes. Not just juul brand. It clearly is the flavors that people are taking issue with, this marketing thing is just a footnote. So much so that I almost never even hear this incident referenced.
  - sneak 6y ago
    SF hasn’t banned cigarettes, though, which does “explain” it: the ban is not based on rational analysis of public health outcomes.
    - catalogia 6y ago
      SF doesn't need to ban flavored cigarettes because the federal government already has. SF banned flavored vapes because the federal government hasn't (yet.)
      - sneak 6y ago
        I didn't say flavored cigarettes, I said cigarettes. While cigarettes are legal, discussion of any vaping regulation is irrelevant.

samatman 6y ago

"plain" flavor vape cartridges would not have gotten me to quit smoking. Fruity mango flavor did. The idea that only children find flavors appealing is asinine, and you should feel shame for participating in a moral panic that is leading directly to cancer and death. What I, a consenting adult, choose to do for recreation and stress relief, is none of your goddamn business, and I suggest you butt out of it.

aaomidi 6y ago
I agree with you. People have this weird condescending view towards smokers. Like they see themselves as morally superior beings. It's quite infuriating and you can see that mindset reflect itself in how people approach these topics. Fuck me for enjoying a flavored vice.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  To be completely objective, cigarettes are dangerous because the concoction of chemicals that generate the smoke lead to lung cancer. Vaping mostly just gives you the Nicotine hit, which doesn’t have the same dangers as tobacco smoke. Of all the vices I ever picked up, vaping has the smallest footprint in terms of character change while consuming it, and long term health consequences. We probably need more studies on standard Nicotine consumption, as it may be in the same class as caffeine dependency: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Nicotine_It_may_have_a_good_side https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Nicotine_I... Now, about the kids. I think they will mostly get high on vape pens. Juul won’t even be there jam honestly.
dlivingston 6y ago
I have to admit that I felt a visceral anger reading parent's comment as well. I quit smoking via e-cigarettes and via Tooti Frooti, Tiger's Blood, Fruit Loops and a dozen other "tasty" flavors. A parallel could be made to childhood obesity. Yes, soft drinks contribute, but with parent's logic, all flavored soft drinks should be made illegal in favor of, well, 'plain carbonated water' flavor. Yum! Won't somebody please think of the children! Keep me out of your Orwellian utopia, thanks.

leetcrew 6y ago

> If their mandate was really harm reduction they could do that with a "plain" flavor; that's how we stop the kids in my house from eating all the yogurt. frankly I don't know whether the people at juul had malicious intentions wrt teenage vaping, but I really resent the line of argument that offering enjoyable flavors implies targeting children. this is actually one of the main things that makes vaping a viable substitute for me and many other people. if they only made plain vapes, I would probably just go back to smoking.

asdff 6y ago

Why does yummy booze flavors in arms reach of your toddler in the gas station aisle get a free pass, but juul pods with a surgeon generals warning kept under lock and key behind the shop clerk are targeting children? I can't comprehend these mental gymnastics.