3 ms·

> There are many more coronaviruses in the wild and we will continue to see pandemics until unsanitary practices like wet markets with exotic animal products a

by jlg23 6y ago

> There are many more coronaviruses in the wild and we will continue to see pandemics until unsanitary practices like wet markets with exotic animal products are outlawed. Before trying to find a global definition for "exotic" we could start with washing hands or not sneezing or coughing at people nearby.

rrdharan 6y ago
Sneezing and coughing, sure, but lots of folks don't have easy access to clean water, a problem that is likely to exacerbate over the next few decades. Excessive hand washing among the people who do isn't gonna help a lot particularly in drought-prone areas. I don't think it is a bad idea to keep looking for ways to prevent these outbreaks as close to whatever their origin is as possible. Note that in some very poor countries (India comes to mind) it's not at all clear that more total lives are saved via lockdowns since they will result in famine and all sorts of other terrible consequences. In Africa folks are worried about a huge spike in malaria that could dwarf the projected CoVid impact in certain populations. Every country for themselves and the current lockdown strategies are what we are gonna get, and I'm not angry about it since the action-reaction-logic of all of this is pretty straightforward, but it's not at all quite clear to me that it leads to the fewest number of human casualties vs just some local minima.
- jlg23 6y ago
  > Excessive hand washing among the people who do isn't gonna help a lot particularly in drought-prone areas. I am a European who has been living about 100km north of Western Sahara for a few years now: People here wash hands much more often than Europeans or US Americans and they know how to do so using much less water. More often than not, in restaurants, with European guests, I have to point out that "I am going to wash my hands" before eating so that everyone does it - despite locals and me visibly having done so when entering the restaurant (that all have facilities to clean your hands in the dining room or directly at the entrance). In Berlin, for 15 years I was pissing people off by pointing out they did not wash their hands after using the restroom. Pro tip: Wait until they are back at their table and then congratulate their friends on having such a close group where nobody minds sharing a bowl of peanuts with the guy who just did not wash his hands... > I don't think it is a bad idea to keep looking for ways to prevent these outbreaks as close to whatever their origin is as possible. Not at all, but let's not forget that these markets are the only ones in a lot of places. People rely on them for food and income: Where I live the next proper supermarket is a 2.5h drive either north or south. People from small villages walk to the closest souk (market) once a week to sell their goods. Furthermore, whenever people in the first world blame "unhygienic wet markets" that sell "exotic food" I am very careful: * What's exotic for a US-American might be a staple for someone else; * What the tourist buys might be something the same vendor would not dare to sell to locals (but tourists leave after a few days, so no impact on the customer base); * Preparation matters: Down here meat is always well done and vegetables are always cooked to death. Notable exceptions: tourists who explicitly order meat medium or medium rare. So, given that the markets are essential for the locals and that we 1st-world citizens cannot maintain a decent hygiene, I still think we should start with ourselves before banning "exotic" behaviour.

by jlg23 6y ago

rrdharan 6y ago

Sneezing and coughing, sure, but lots of folks don't have easy access to clean water, a problem that is likely to exacerbate over the next few decades. Excessive hand washing among the people who do isn't gonna help a lot particularly in drought-prone areas. I don't think it is a bad idea to keep looking for ways to prevent these outbreaks as close to whatever their origin is as possible. Note that in some very poor countries (India comes to mind) it's not at all clear that more total lives are saved via lockdowns since they will result in famine and all sorts of other terrible consequences. In Africa folks are worried about a huge spike in malaria that could dwarf the projected CoVid impact in certain populations. Every country for themselves and the current lockdown strategies are what we are gonna get, and I'm not angry about it since the action-reaction-logic of all of this is pretty straightforward, but it's not at all quite clear to me that it leads to the fewest number of human casualties vs just some local minima.

jlg23 6y ago
> Excessive hand washing among the people who do isn't gonna help a lot particularly in drought-prone areas. I am a European who has been living about 100km north of Western Sahara for a few years now: People here wash hands much more often than Europeans or US Americans and they know how to do so using much less water. More often than not, in restaurants, with European guests, I have to point out that "I am going to wash my hands" before eating so that everyone does it - despite locals and me visibly having done so when entering the restaurant (that all have facilities to clean your hands in the dining room or directly at the entrance). In Berlin, for 15 years I was pissing people off by pointing out they did not wash their hands after using the restroom. Pro tip: Wait until they are back at their table and then congratulate their friends on having such a close group where nobody minds sharing a bowl of peanuts with the guy who just did not wash his hands... > I don't think it is a bad idea to keep looking for ways to prevent these outbreaks as close to whatever their origin is as possible. Not at all, but let's not forget that these markets are the only ones in a lot of places. People rely on them for food and income: Where I live the next proper supermarket is a 2.5h drive either north or south. People from small villages walk to the closest souk (market) once a week to sell their goods. Furthermore, whenever people in the first world blame "unhygienic wet markets" that sell "exotic food" I am very careful: * What's exotic for a US-American might be a staple for someone else; * What the tourist buys might be something the same vendor would not dare to sell to locals (but tourists leave after a few days, so no impact on the customer base); * Preparation matters: Down here meat is always well done and vegetables are always cooked to death. Notable exceptions: tourists who explicitly order meat medium or medium rare. So, given that the markets are essential for the locals and that we 1st-world citizens cannot maintain a decent hygiene, I still think we should start with ourselves before banning "exotic" behaviour.