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> They can't handle when someone is expressive (aka the Tesla @ 420 tweet, he simply expresses his opinion) He tweeted about having money to take Tesla private

> They can't handle when someone is expressive (aka the Tesla @ 420 tweet, he simply expresses his opinion) He tweeted about having money to take Tesla private, which from what I remember turned out to be false. Lying is not being expressive, it's just that: lying.

mettamage 6y ago
I don't know enough about this (how CEOs ought to behave) and I don't know to what extent Elon Musk cares. But I do know what I'd think in his position: I'd care more about freedom of speech. I believe that I should be capable of saying whatever I want (usual restrictions apply, hate speech etc.). Even if that means that I'm tweeting on a social platform about the share price. Twitter is not a platform where official stuff should be on. That is what press releases are for. If people believe Twitter, then where should I go (as the new imagined Tesla CEO) to just say whatever the hell I want? In any case, that's how I would think about it. You're correct though, it is lying. Lying is a consequence of saying whatever you want to say. When he wrote that tweet, I thought nothing of it. I just thought that it was his own private ideas that he wrote out in the world because he likes to interact. I know how naive that sounds, but I would be that naive as Tesla's new imagned CEO. And there are a few hints that Elon might be that as well. But of course, that's a different discussion whether he actually is (on paper: probably not, when I look at his behavior: well... it could be).
- xiphias2 6y ago
  Actually there was a big difference between this tweet (expressing his opinion) and the 420 tweet, which was a statement on a material fact. There exist special laws for CEOs of all public companies, and he should be extremely careful about those statements. The new CFO helps Elon with those though, and Elon just gives really boring statements about the future numbers (as opposed to the products, where he can get more crazy).
  - jsight 6y ago
    I think those "special laws" harm me as an investor. Corporate speak does not make my job as an investor any easier.
    - fragmede 6y ago
      As an investor in Tesla, it's easy to agree. As an investor in Enron, prior, I'm not sure.
      - jsight 6y ago
        But were Enron's issues related to CEO speech, or were they just massive accounting fraud? I can be in favor of more free communication but still vehemently opposed to misreporting. For that matter, I think it is terrible that we don't require more details in financial statements as it is.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  > Twitter is not a platform where official stuff should be on. That is what press releases are for. If people believe Twitter, then where should I go (as the new imagined Tesla CEO) to just say whatever the hell I want? It doesn't or didn't have to be. Tesla were the ones who stated in their Annual Reports that they considered Tesla and Elon's Twitters to be official sources for Tesla information. This wasn't forced on him as a matter of censorship. _He_ chose that, his bed to lie in.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    If you're making claims like this where opinions are polarized, then a source would be handy. I could Google, but too lazy (see above), I'll simply assume what you say is correct. I didn't know this (anyone who assumes I spend a lot of time on reading about Elon is wrong). If he knew this then it was stupid. If he ought to know this but he didn't, then I get it. Don't get me wrong, that should be reprimanded by the SEC, but I wouldn't call it stupid. It simply means you're (perhaps too) focused on other priorities. There were many times where I ought to know things about the Dutch law as well and I didn't and I got burned [1]. You can't know everything, I'd rather pay the fine so I can focus my time on more interesting things. [1] a) Too late with VAT without having anything too declare. b) Going on a public road that I wasn't allowed to go in between certain times, I didn't even know it was a thing and I didn't read the signage fast enough. Now I know that municipalities are allowed to block people from other municipalities.
    - FireBeyond 6y ago
      Sure. Tesla’s 8-K filing (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312513427630/d622890d8k.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312513...): > For additional information, please follow Elon Musk’s and Tesla’s Twitter accounts.
- askafriend 6y ago
  This is the silliest defense I've read. Stop making excuses for him and treating him like a child.

mettamage 6y ago

I don't know enough about this (how CEOs ought to behave) and I don't know to what extent Elon Musk cares. But I do know what I'd think in his position: I'd care more about freedom of speech. I believe that I should be capable of saying whatever I want (usual restrictions apply, hate speech etc.). Even if that means that I'm tweeting on a social platform about the share price. Twitter is not a platform where official stuff should be on. That is what press releases are for. If people believe Twitter, then where should I go (as the new imagined Tesla CEO) to just say whatever the hell I want? In any case, that's how I would think about it. You're correct though, it is lying. Lying is a consequence of saying whatever you want to say. When he wrote that tweet, I thought nothing of it. I just thought that it was his own private ideas that he wrote out in the world because he likes to interact. I know how naive that sounds, but I would be that naive as Tesla's new imagned CEO. And there are a few hints that Elon might be that as well. But of course, that's a different discussion whether he actually is (on paper: probably not, when I look at his behavior: well... it could be).

xiphias2 6y ago
Actually there was a big difference between this tweet (expressing his opinion) and the 420 tweet, which was a statement on a material fact. There exist special laws for CEOs of all public companies, and he should be extremely careful about those statements. The new CFO helps Elon with those though, and Elon just gives really boring statements about the future numbers (as opposed to the products, where he can get more crazy).
- jsight 6y ago
  I think those "special laws" harm me as an investor. Corporate speak does not make my job as an investor any easier.
  - fragmede 6y ago
    As an investor in Tesla, it's easy to agree. As an investor in Enron, prior, I'm not sure.
    - jsight 6y ago
      But were Enron's issues related to CEO speech, or were they just massive accounting fraud? I can be in favor of more free communication but still vehemently opposed to misreporting. For that matter, I think it is terrible that we don't require more details in financial statements as it is.
FireBeyond 6y ago
> Twitter is not a platform where official stuff should be on. That is what press releases are for. If people believe Twitter, then where should I go (as the new imagined Tesla CEO) to just say whatever the hell I want? It doesn't or didn't have to be. Tesla were the ones who stated in their Annual Reports that they considered Tesla and Elon's Twitters to be official sources for Tesla information. This wasn't forced on him as a matter of censorship. _He_ chose that, his bed to lie in.
- mettamage 6y ago
  If you're making claims like this where opinions are polarized, then a source would be handy. I could Google, but too lazy (see above), I'll simply assume what you say is correct. I didn't know this (anyone who assumes I spend a lot of time on reading about Elon is wrong). If he knew this then it was stupid. If he ought to know this but he didn't, then I get it. Don't get me wrong, that should be reprimanded by the SEC, but I wouldn't call it stupid. It simply means you're (perhaps too) focused on other priorities. There were many times where I ought to know things about the Dutch law as well and I didn't and I got burned [1]. You can't know everything, I'd rather pay the fine so I can focus my time on more interesting things. [1] a) Too late with VAT without having anything too declare. b) Going on a public road that I wasn't allowed to go in between certain times, I didn't even know it was a thing and I didn't read the signage fast enough. Now I know that municipalities are allowed to block people from other municipalities.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Sure. Tesla’s 8-K filing (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312513427630/d622890d8k.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312513...): > For additional information, please follow Elon Musk’s and Tesla’s Twitter accounts.
askafriend 6y ago
This is the silliest defense I've read. Stop making excuses for him and treating him like a child.