4 ms·

If it didn't work this way, protectionism wouldn't exist. There are various economics models which show Germany has benefited the most from creation of EU Sur

If it didn't work this way, protectionism wouldn't exist. There are various economics models which show Germany has benefited the most from creation of EU Sure countries in middle of Europe and east are improving their baseline but it's nothing compared to what Germany has achieved. Germany is effectively china of EU. It's funny to see the same people who oppose China's currency manipulation are in favour of EU I suggest you read this: https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-largest-economy-nobody-understands https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-...

timrichard 6y ago
I remember seeing an interesting talk on the Target2 system, which suggests a part of those intra-EU German export achievements may just amount to risky credit anyway : https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8 https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8
derriz 6y ago
Hmm takes about 5 minutes of googling to find annualised GDP per-capita growth rates for countries. Using the 1990-2015 period (because the numbers are directly available on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growth_1980–2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growt...). The following countries all grew by MORE than Germany: Poland (8.5%), Romania (6.9%), Lithuania (6.9%), Slovakia (6.7%), Czech Republic (6.6%), Estonia (6.4%), Ireland (6.2%), Latvia (5.8%), Hungary (5.5%), Malta (5.1%), Bulgaria (4.7%), Luxembourg (4.6%), Norway (3.9%), Portugal (3.6%), Slovenia (3.3%), Croatia (3.1%), United Kingdom (3.1%) and the Netherlands (3.0%). Germany's rate for the same period was 2.9%. So you're theory that Germany has benefited the most from the EU - at least for this period - is clearly false.
- econcon 6y ago
  Germany started from much stronger position, so grow rates don't tell us the whole story. Compare the living standards, so you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany?
  - derriz 6y ago
    "So you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany" - why would I want to argue that? I mean I've said absolutely nothing about living standards and neither did you? Why not simply read what I've written instead of inventing arguments for me to make? I've provided some basic numbers and references which directly contradict your claim that Germany benefitted most from the structures of the EU. I give up. I tried to explain some reasons why you might be getting downvoted but it's been a waste of time.
phatfish 6y ago
The link is a rambling mess. What exact are we supposed to learn from it? Germany was against monetary union in Europe, they saw it as giving away their ability to be fiscally conservative. This is of course what happened with the ECB finally printing their way out of the Euro debt crisis. The fact that Germany retained their manufacturing capacity and still takes pride in it is the reason they are an export economy. The economics of the Euro are just working for them rather than against them. Other countries threw away their manufacturing capacity for a service sector, most notably Britain which centralised their economy in London.

timrichard 6y ago

I remember seeing an interesting talk on the Target2 system, which suggests a part of those intra-EU German export achievements may just amount to risky credit anyway : https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8 https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8

derriz 6y ago

Hmm takes about 5 minutes of googling to find annualised GDP per-capita growth rates for countries. Using the 1990-2015 period (because the numbers are directly available on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growth_1980–2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growt...). The following countries all grew by MORE than Germany: Poland (8.5%), Romania (6.9%), Lithuania (6.9%), Slovakia (6.7%), Czech Republic (6.6%), Estonia (6.4%), Ireland (6.2%), Latvia (5.8%), Hungary (5.5%), Malta (5.1%), Bulgaria (4.7%), Luxembourg (4.6%), Norway (3.9%), Portugal (3.6%), Slovenia (3.3%), Croatia (3.1%), United Kingdom (3.1%) and the Netherlands (3.0%). Germany's rate for the same period was 2.9%. So you're theory that Germany has benefited the most from the EU - at least for this period - is clearly false.

econcon 6y ago
Germany started from much stronger position, so grow rates don't tell us the whole story. Compare the living standards, so you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany?
- derriz 6y ago
  "So you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany" - why would I want to argue that? I mean I've said absolutely nothing about living standards and neither did you? Why not simply read what I've written instead of inventing arguments for me to make? I've provided some basic numbers and references which directly contradict your claim that Germany benefitted most from the structures of the EU. I give up. I tried to explain some reasons why you might be getting downvoted but it's been a waste of time.

phatfish 6y ago

The link is a rambling mess. What exact are we supposed to learn from it? Germany was against monetary union in Europe, they saw it as giving away their ability to be fiscally conservative. This is of course what happened with the ECB finally printing their way out of the Euro debt crisis. The fact that Germany retained their manufacturing capacity and still takes pride in it is the reason they are an export economy. The economics of the Euro are just working for them rather than against them. Other countries threw away their manufacturing capacity for a service sector, most notably Britain which centralised their economy in London.