4 ms·

Not only Germans but whole EU. The way EU works is by letting monopolies in a few west European countries expand their market to east and capture more value fro

Not only Germans but whole EU. The way EU works is by letting monopolies in a few west European countries expand their market to east and capture more value from everywhere. Yes, East European companies can also do that but usually, there is first mover advantage and other policies at local level which influence the ability to form monopoly through investment and expansion.

econcon 6y ago
I'd love to know why downvoters disagree, if you start a competition between companies where some companies have better technology, state help or finance and put them against companies who don't have all that, yes big companies are more likely to become bigger if you combine the market where all these companies operate.
- derriz 6y ago
  Perhaps because the claim "The way EU works is by letting monopolies in a few west European countries expand their market to east" is clearly ludicrous as a summary of how the EU works? I mean, the EU - ignoring the name changes over the years - had existed for over 30 years before the fall of the Iron curtain and nearly 50 years before admitting new members from the the East. The idea that the whole thing was set-up and run based on the goal of economically exploiting recent entrants from the East decades in the future is simply silly.
  - econcon 6y ago
    If it didn't work this way, protectionism wouldn't exist. There are various economics models which show Germany has benefited the most from creation of EU Sure countries in middle of Europe and east are improving their baseline but it's nothing compared to what Germany has achieved. Germany is effectively china of EU. It's funny to see the same people who oppose China's currency manipulation are in favour of EU I suggest you read this: https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-largest-economy-nobody-understands https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-...
    - timrichard 6y ago
      I remember seeing an interesting talk on the Target2 system, which suggests a part of those intra-EU German export achievements may just amount to risky credit anyway : https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8 https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8
    - derriz 6y ago
      Hmm takes about 5 minutes of googling to find annualised GDP per-capita growth rates for countries. Using the 1990-2015 period (because the numbers are directly available on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growth_1980–2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growt...). The following countries all grew by MORE than Germany: Poland (8.5%), Romania (6.9%), Lithuania (6.9%), Slovakia (6.7%), Czech Republic (6.6%), Estonia (6.4%), Ireland (6.2%), Latvia (5.8%), Hungary (5.5%), Malta (5.1%), Bulgaria (4.7%), Luxembourg (4.6%), Norway (3.9%), Portugal (3.6%), Slovenia (3.3%), Croatia (3.1%), United Kingdom (3.1%) and the Netherlands (3.0%). Germany's rate for the same period was 2.9%. So you're theory that Germany has benefited the most from the EU - at least for this period - is clearly false.
      - econcon 6y ago
        Germany started from much stronger position, so grow rates don't tell us the whole story. Compare the living standards, so you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany?
        derriz 6y ago
        "So you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany" - why would I want to argue that? I mean I've said absolutely nothing about living standards and neither did you? Why not simply read what I've written instead of inventing arguments for me to make? I've provided some basic numbers and references which directly contradict your claim that Germany benefitted most from the structures of the EU. I give up. I tried to explain some reasons why you might be getting downvoted but it's been a waste of time.
    - 6y ago

econcon 6y ago

I'd love to know why downvoters disagree, if you start a competition between companies where some companies have better technology, state help or finance and put them against companies who don't have all that, yes big companies are more likely to become bigger if you combine the market where all these companies operate.

derriz 6y ago
Perhaps because the claim "The way EU works is by letting monopolies in a few west European countries expand their market to east" is clearly ludicrous as a summary of how the EU works? I mean, the EU - ignoring the name changes over the years - had existed for over 30 years before the fall of the Iron curtain and nearly 50 years before admitting new members from the the East. The idea that the whole thing was set-up and run based on the goal of economically exploiting recent entrants from the East decades in the future is simply silly.
- econcon 6y ago
  If it didn't work this way, protectionism wouldn't exist. There are various economics models which show Germany has benefited the most from creation of EU Sure countries in middle of Europe and east are improving their baseline but it's nothing compared to what Germany has achieved. Germany is effectively china of EU. It's funny to see the same people who oppose China's currency manipulation are in favour of EU I suggest you read this: https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-largest-economy-nobody-understands https://www.conradbastable.com/essays/the-germany-shock-the-...
  - timrichard 6y ago
    I remember seeing an interesting talk on the Target2 system, which suggests a part of those intra-EU German export achievements may just amount to risky credit anyway : https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8 https://youtu.be/q2QYaJGgtw8
  - derriz 6y ago
    Hmm takes about 5 minutes of googling to find annualised GDP per-capita growth rates for countries. Using the 1990-2015 period (because the numbers are directly available on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growth_1980–2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growt...). The following countries all grew by MORE than Germany: Poland (8.5%), Romania (6.9%), Lithuania (6.9%), Slovakia (6.7%), Czech Republic (6.6%), Estonia (6.4%), Ireland (6.2%), Latvia (5.8%), Hungary (5.5%), Malta (5.1%), Bulgaria (4.7%), Luxembourg (4.6%), Norway (3.9%), Portugal (3.6%), Slovenia (3.3%), Croatia (3.1%), United Kingdom (3.1%) and the Netherlands (3.0%). Germany's rate for the same period was 2.9%. So you're theory that Germany has benefited the most from the EU - at least for this period - is clearly false.
    - econcon 6y ago
      Germany started from much stronger position, so grow rates don't tell us the whole story. Compare the living standards, so you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany?
      - derriz 6y ago
        "So you want to argue Poland with 8.5% growth has higher living standards than Germany" - why would I want to argue that? I mean I've said absolutely nothing about living standards and neither did you? Why not simply read what I've written instead of inventing arguments for me to make? I've provided some basic numbers and references which directly contradict your claim that Germany benefitted most from the structures of the EU. I give up. I tried to explain some reasons why you might be getting downvoted but it's been a waste of time.
  - 6y ago