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Boeing is one of few companies using program accounting. Won't this kind of slump drastically cut the number of planes they can distribute their development cos

Boeing is one of few companies using program accounting. Won't this kind of slump drastically cut the number of planes they can distribute their development costs over for the 787 and 737 Max projects also?

imglorp 6y ago
That's what I wonder. More to the point, their stock is up 8% today on this news, because short term, this quarter, will look better with reduced costs. Who cares about the quarter after that, where production will have to be impacted by reduced workforce.
- mason55 6y ago
  > Who cares about the quarter after that, where production will have to be impacted by reduced workforce. You were being sarcastic but you're kind of right. In the same way that this quarter isn't the be all-end all, neither is next quarter. Over, say, a 10 year time horizon, the next couple quarters will just be a blip. Plus, Boeing doesn't exist in a vacuum. The US Govt is going to let anything happen to them due to national security reasons and they've shown that they aren't willing to wipe out shareholders as part of a bailout. Frankly I'd be much more worried about the culture that allowed the 787MAX to happen than I would be about short-term COVID-19 reductions.
  - thephyber 6y ago
    I disagree that this quarter will be a blip, but I agree with the sentiment here. There are runways and parking lots in Washington full of undelivered planes which are waiting on contractual disputes related to the quality assurance of the 737 MAX issues. A significant percentage of Boeing planes are currently undeliverable and post-pandemic world airlines are likely going to cancel / downsize contracts or at least spend significant legal fees to attempt to do so. Barring a quick and easy vaccination or herd immunity that accidentally happens much faster than expected, travel is unlikely to recover this year and perhaps not next. Clearing their backlog of planes will likely take 4+ years unless the company can convince people and airlines to trust them again.
    - whatok 6y ago
      Delivery has taken so long that they are going to run into refund periods soon. There's normally massive down payments for these which deters cancellations but these aren't ordinary times. You are almost certainly going to see consolidation within the airlines and there's little to no chance of more plane purchases in that case.
    - gibba999 6y ago
      If this lasts long enough for good tools for telepresence to be in place, travel may never recover. Or if countries close borders and don't reopen as much. Or... There are a lot more risks here than just draw-out pandemic.
  - MR4D 6y ago
    The government definitely could let them wipeout shareholders, and then step in during the bankruptcy process. In short, the bond holders would become the new shareholders, and the government would be able to drive it to the conclusion that the government wants. This is oversimplified, as reality has much more nuance than this. That might actually be the best option going forward, as they could clean up a bunch of legacy crap and streamline the firm. Plus, the government might want multiple companies ( e.g. commercial/defense/space ) instead of one monolith.
    - a3n 6y ago
      > The government definitely could let them wipeout shareholders, and then step in during the bankruptcy process. That definitely won't happen this year, perhaps ever. Trump said today that states are responsible for procurement and development of virus tests, labs and processing material. Each state, on their own. If he's afraid of that responsibility, Boeing is going to be something he's never heard of.
      - denkmoon 6y ago
        Trump is the head of the government, but he is not the government. The US government is such a behemoth not even he can stop it doing what it does. Too many vested interests in Boeing to let it fail.
      - thefounder 6y ago
        >>>Trump said today... And you believed?
  - cma 6y ago
    The US Govt isn't going to let anything happen to Boeing, but protecting their shareholders isn't a national security issue. They will still probably protect them since it is a government imposed travel shutdown.
    - tomp 6y ago
      Why would a government shutdown impact Boeing? I mean people fly less, but that's a few months, how many planes will not be replaced because they're getting 2 months less use? Unless you're counting the crashes that won't happen because of the shutdown, of course.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - cma 6y ago
        Airlines pay on installment plans and would start missing payments if they weren't bailed out, which also bails Boeing shareholders out.
        tomp 6y ago
        I read somewhere that airlines don't actually own the planes.
        cma 6y ago
        Seems to be true, and Boeing may lease through other partner companies and not directly.
- sesuximo 6y ago
  This may be true but keep in mind BA looked like /\/\/\ over the last month, and those were big swings too. Maybe there are reasonable explanations or maybe there's just a lot of movement right now
- zebrafish 6y ago
  The stock is down well over 50% since mid-february. Not that the stock market isn't myopic but this comment appears to be, well, myopic.
formercoder 6y ago
Doesn’t matter that much. Their income statement will screw around but cash flows will only go up. Complex accounting like that can just get in the way.

imglorp 6y ago

That's what I wonder. More to the point, their stock is up 8% today on this news, because short term, this quarter, will look better with reduced costs. Who cares about the quarter after that, where production will have to be impacted by reduced workforce.

mason55 6y ago
> Who cares about the quarter after that, where production will have to be impacted by reduced workforce. You were being sarcastic but you're kind of right. In the same way that this quarter isn't the be all-end all, neither is next quarter. Over, say, a 10 year time horizon, the next couple quarters will just be a blip. Plus, Boeing doesn't exist in a vacuum. The US Govt is going to let anything happen to them due to national security reasons and they've shown that they aren't willing to wipe out shareholders as part of a bailout. Frankly I'd be much more worried about the culture that allowed the 787MAX to happen than I would be about short-term COVID-19 reductions.
- thephyber 6y ago
  I disagree that this quarter will be a blip, but I agree with the sentiment here. There are runways and parking lots in Washington full of undelivered planes which are waiting on contractual disputes related to the quality assurance of the 737 MAX issues. A significant percentage of Boeing planes are currently undeliverable and post-pandemic world airlines are likely going to cancel / downsize contracts or at least spend significant legal fees to attempt to do so. Barring a quick and easy vaccination or herd immunity that accidentally happens much faster than expected, travel is unlikely to recover this year and perhaps not next. Clearing their backlog of planes will likely take 4+ years unless the company can convince people and airlines to trust them again.
  - whatok 6y ago
    Delivery has taken so long that they are going to run into refund periods soon. There's normally massive down payments for these which deters cancellations but these aren't ordinary times. You are almost certainly going to see consolidation within the airlines and there's little to no chance of more plane purchases in that case.
  - gibba999 6y ago
    If this lasts long enough for good tools for telepresence to be in place, travel may never recover. Or if countries close borders and don't reopen as much. Or... There are a lot more risks here than just draw-out pandemic.
- MR4D 6y ago
  The government definitely could let them wipeout shareholders, and then step in during the bankruptcy process. In short, the bond holders would become the new shareholders, and the government would be able to drive it to the conclusion that the government wants. This is oversimplified, as reality has much more nuance than this. That might actually be the best option going forward, as they could clean up a bunch of legacy crap and streamline the firm. Plus, the government might want multiple companies ( e.g. commercial/defense/space ) instead of one monolith.
  - a3n 6y ago
    > The government definitely could let them wipeout shareholders, and then step in during the bankruptcy process. That definitely won't happen this year, perhaps ever. Trump said today that states are responsible for procurement and development of virus tests, labs and processing material. Each state, on their own. If he's afraid of that responsibility, Boeing is going to be something he's never heard of.
    - denkmoon 6y ago
      Trump is the head of the government, but he is not the government. The US government is such a behemoth not even he can stop it doing what it does. Too many vested interests in Boeing to let it fail.
    - thefounder 6y ago
      >>>Trump said today... And you believed?
- cma 6y ago
  The US Govt isn't going to let anything happen to Boeing, but protecting their shareholders isn't a national security issue. They will still probably protect them since it is a government imposed travel shutdown.
  - tomp 6y ago
    Why would a government shutdown impact Boeing? I mean people fly less, but that's a few months, how many planes will not be replaced because they're getting 2 months less use? Unless you're counting the crashes that won't happen because of the shutdown, of course.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - cma 6y ago
      Airlines pay on installment plans and would start missing payments if they weren't bailed out, which also bails Boeing shareholders out.
      - tomp 6y ago
        I read somewhere that airlines don't actually own the planes.
        cma 6y ago
        Seems to be true, and Boeing may lease through other partner companies and not directly.
sesuximo 6y ago
This may be true but keep in mind BA looked like /\/\/\ over the last month, and those were big swings too. Maybe there are reasonable explanations or maybe there's just a lot of movement right now
zebrafish 6y ago
The stock is down well over 50% since mid-february. Not that the stock market isn't myopic but this comment appears to be, well, myopic.

formercoder 6y ago

Doesn’t matter that much. Their income statement will screw around but cash flows will only go up. Complex accounting like that can just get in the way.