6 ms·

For the sake of argument.... What happens if no airline gets any bail-out money? Do we end up with worse air travel in a year or two?

by netcan 7y ago

a3_nm 7y ago
And maybe we reduce the total amount of travel, which is crucial to reduce our carbon footprint. These airline bailouts are a huge missed opportunity.
- Aachen 7y ago
  I also have yet to hear why we would want to save these companies in the first place. I guess the money is flowing into banks' coffers, paying off airplanes? Or are there other costs they're currently making? What is free money going to do for the airline, pay employees that have no work to do anyway? Wouldn't it be more efficient to give them the money? I don't care if Lufthansa goes bankrupt and someone else buys their planes for pennies on the dollar, gives them an inspection after covid-19, and life continues as usual. How are these 10e9 spent other than throwing it into a black hole? There's probably more to it than I know, but I have yet to hear the reason we're keeping those businesses alive.
Wohlf 7y ago
You end up with thousands of lost jobs right now, not just Lufthansa going under but all the businesses that serve them. That's why governments bail out companies.
- netcan 7y ago
  We've ended up with thousands of lost airline jobs regardless. They aren't paying salaries while flights are grounded. Jobs are ultimately proportional to the number of people flying. More flights, more jobs. I appreciate that people expect help, and I would be fine with money for airline employees. I'm skeptical that a bail-out does that much for jobs though. The jobs will (or won't) return as flights do, unless the airlines aren't operating. I'm open to being convinced, the above question was genuine. I don't really understand the alternative. What happens in a no bail-out situation?
commandlinefan 7y ago
Yeah, it's the same line of reasoning behind farm subsidies: running a farm is risky, and if it's so risky that nobody does it, none of us eats... so we all chip in (whether we want to or not) to farmers to offset their losses.
- Aachen 7y ago
  Okay, so the farmer's risk is low crop yield, farmer bankrupt, no food, people die. What about airlines? No passengers, airlines bankrupt, only very limited air travel possible, covid-19 ends, someone buys the airplanes from the asset auction, gives them an inspection, life continues as usual? Solidarity is a whole other matter: if you can't work (because you're disabled or because you can't find work) you get money from the government. Doesn't matter if you're a farmer or airline employee, nor whether the company you worked for goes bankrupt. That's no reason to keep the companies alive, the people won't personally go bankrupt. (That might be different in developing countries, but those won't have 10B bailouts for nonessential businesses anyway.)
MattGaiser 7y ago
You end up with air travel only between major cities and a lot of government-owned airports which are empty and lose money.
- luckylion 7y ago
  That may be a point for the US, but not so much for Germany. We already only have air travel between major cities as the country isn't that big. We do have small regional airports, but they are mostly for hobbyists and private planes, not for Lufthansa & commercial airlines.

For the sake of argument.... What happens if no airline gets any bail-out money? Do we end up with worse air travel in a year or two?

by netcan 7y ago

For the sake of argument.... What happens if no airline gets any bail-out money? Do we end up with worse air travel in a year or two?

a3_nm 7y ago

And maybe we reduce the total amount of travel, which is crucial to reduce our carbon footprint. These airline bailouts are a huge missed opportunity.

Aachen 7y ago
I also have yet to hear why we would want to save these companies in the first place. I guess the money is flowing into banks' coffers, paying off airplanes? Or are there other costs they're currently making? What is free money going to do for the airline, pay employees that have no work to do anyway? Wouldn't it be more efficient to give them the money? I don't care if Lufthansa goes bankrupt and someone else buys their planes for pennies on the dollar, gives them an inspection after covid-19, and life continues as usual. How are these 10e9 spent other than throwing it into a black hole? There's probably more to it than I know, but I have yet to hear the reason we're keeping those businesses alive.

Wohlf 7y ago

You end up with thousands of lost jobs right now, not just Lufthansa going under but all the businesses that serve them. That's why governments bail out companies.

netcan 7y ago
We've ended up with thousands of lost airline jobs regardless. They aren't paying salaries while flights are grounded. Jobs are ultimately proportional to the number of people flying. More flights, more jobs. I appreciate that people expect help, and I would be fine with money for airline employees. I'm skeptical that a bail-out does that much for jobs though. The jobs will (or won't) return as flights do, unless the airlines aren't operating. I'm open to being convinced, the above question was genuine. I don't really understand the alternative. What happens in a no bail-out situation?

commandlinefan 7y ago

Yeah, it's the same line of reasoning behind farm subsidies: running a farm is risky, and if it's so risky that nobody does it, none of us eats... so we all chip in (whether we want to or not) to farmers to offset their losses.

Aachen 7y ago
Okay, so the farmer's risk is low crop yield, farmer bankrupt, no food, people die. What about airlines? No passengers, airlines bankrupt, only very limited air travel possible, covid-19 ends, someone buys the airplanes from the asset auction, gives them an inspection, life continues as usual? Solidarity is a whole other matter: if you can't work (because you're disabled or because you can't find work) you get money from the government. Doesn't matter if you're a farmer or airline employee, nor whether the company you worked for goes bankrupt. That's no reason to keep the companies alive, the people won't personally go bankrupt. (That might be different in developing countries, but those won't have 10B bailouts for nonessential businesses anyway.)

MattGaiser 7y ago

You end up with air travel only between major cities and a lot of government-owned airports which are empty and lose money.

luckylion 7y ago
That may be a point for the US, but not so much for Germany. We already only have air travel between major cities as the country isn't that big. We do have small regional airports, but they are mostly for hobbyists and private planes, not for Lufthansa & commercial airlines.