5 ms·

One thing that I think the business world has finally learned during the COVID-19 social distancing is that business travel isn't nearly so important as we had

by smoyer 7y ago

One thing that I think the business world has finally learned during the COVID-19 social distancing is that business travel isn't nearly so important as we had imagined. And attending conferences was always fun but it's been amazing to watch how fast conferences have switched to an on-line format (well ... the technical ones that I would attend). So it's my opinion that the airlines, hotels, conference centers and taxi/ride-share companies are in for a rude awakening. Tourism might increase when this isolation ends, but I think there's going to continue to be a serious contraction in the market segments that support business traveling. And when you combine it with the financial damage done to businesses during the pandemic, they've got two fiscal reasons for eliminating business travel.

buboard 7y ago
TBH i expected this to happen some time. I wonder how much funding agencies like NIH , ERC etc spent on travel grants per year. From my experience it s a lot
- ISL 7y ago
  There's still a huge difference between meeting people in the halls at conferences or working with them during a seminar-visit and looking at video-conference screens.
  - ianhawes 7y ago
    This. I think if anything, there will be a minor bump over the next year or so, but it won't be long until people find out that really connecting still requires meeting in person. We are social creatures after all.
  - buboard 7y ago
    Not sure if huge. i ve enjoyed lectures more, and there is a lot of interaction in breakout chat rooms , probably more that RL conferences Also, conferences easily scale to thousands now
jotm 7y ago
I've got a friend who now works from home. Took them all of 3 days to set up. And yet they want her back in the office as soon as possible. Mind boggling to be honest. She's saving so much time and money not commuting and still does the same amount of work. She says she doesn't like it though, the office environment is better. So there's that.
- Loughla 7y ago
  My institution has been trying to bring people back in some format since day 1. My institution also has an administration that isn't comfortable with only measuring results over actual physical time spent in seats during a project. I know correlation doesn't equal causation, but I'm betting there's a link in this one.
- icebraining 7y ago
  In fact, my worry is that this event will actually impede WFH. You've got a bunch of people who don't want to WFH, or who have kids at home or other handicaps; the productivity hit will be tremendous, and bosses will feel this. Sure, we can rationally explain it away, but I doubt any of that will stick to a boss who was already on the fence or somewhat against WFH. They will just see their biases confirmed.
lainga 7y ago
I assumed it was important as a power game thing (if you care about my business so much come out here and stand in front of me). When this is all over the people who say "why do you need to fly me out there, we teleconferenced for 2 months" will get slowly written out of the e-mail chains.
chrisseaton 7y ago
I disagree I think people will go on a business travel binge when they're able to.
abdullahkhalids 7y ago
At least in academia, people usually don't go to conferences to attend the talks - they are uploaded on youtube and you could watch them from home. People go because they are good networking events. That is something which you can't really do online. Edit: of course, a minority of attendees are there to present their work, which can indeed be done online.
- a3_nm 7y ago
  In my academic field (computer science), people go to conferences because you have to present in person the research that you publish there. The question of whether traveling to the conference is worthwhile at all is irrelevant. With conferences moving online, the question starts to have some importance and the answer isn't so clear.
- kilroy123 7y ago
  Exactly, so many people are missing the point that so many of these events can't just be online and then you call it a day. It's about building relationships and connections. Not just watching presentations.
- smoyer 7y ago
  I'm not disagreeing that there are networking opportunities ... I work for a university and have been going to a conference or two a year since I started here simply to meet up with people. I think we'll find a way to recoup some of that value remotely and I think that the business will accept that there is some loss in networking rather than pay for the trips. Throughout most of the '90s and '00s, I traveled between a week and two weeks a month for work. There was a huge decline in the "luxury" of flying around the world after 9/11 that's continued to get worse and worse since. Flying anywhere these days is simply a chore.
intended 7y ago
I think people are going to find the opposite, that networking events are even more crucial to growth (evidenced by research), and the ones who didn't realize this before will now fight for the opportunities that come up in firms.
a3_nm 7y ago
> "attending conferences was always fun" Well it's also because there were always disadvantages we forget about: hours upon hours of travel, going on your own, sleeping in unfamiliar rooms, not to mention the cost of it all. Going to a remote place for a few days isn't so fun when you remember all the hours spent in an airplane seat to get there and back.
- catalogia 7y ago
  > hours upon hours of travel, going on your own, sleeping in unfamiliar rooms How negative those 'negatives' are depends a lot on the individual. Some people prefer routine and freak out when they stray from the routine. But other people find it exciting to stray from routine.
optimiz3 7y ago
Surprised no one has said it so I will: conferences provide a business deductible way to have a nice vacation. Witness how many conferences are in Vegas/Hawaii etc.
- econcon 7y ago
  In India you don't get input tax credit for travel/conferences afaik.
  - optimiz3 7y ago
    Doing it wrong. Your business buys the conference tickets, travel, and some of the lodging. You stay for an extra week. All you pay for is the hotel. Business expenses offset revenue reducing profit and in turn taxes.
- quaquaqua1 7y ago
  Objectively, this is true. Whether the intent is to actually have a conference or not, the real outcome is that employees are A) in a different location and B) the trip is written off as an expense. Objectively. It is impossible to say that this is not what is happening. It's like saying "The Sun does not shine." It absolutely does shine. We don't know what the motive was for it to shine, but objectively, it is shining.
uoaei 7y ago
I am interested to know how you have found networking and informal discussions surrounding conference talks.
petschge 7y ago
Technical conferences switch to videoconferencing software. But they got much much worse in the process.
puranjay 7y ago
Heck, we've been hosting online improv shows. It's not the real thing but it's fun. Honestly surprised by how quickly we've adopted to the constraints.
coliveira 7y ago
You probably don't get that conferences exist for personal interaction, not just to present technical information. In fact I believe that business travel is what will support the travel industry, since most people will be afraid to take their families on travel without a clear necessity.
op03 7y ago
Not going to happen. You can't do too many deals of any kind just over video chat. You will just loose out to ppl who make the trip to sit hit and hand hold customers/partners/employees/bankers etc. China and South Korea have already started issuing spl permits for biz travellers. Some kind of new system being cooked up there that will probably be replicated all over. Airlines/Tourism/Hotels etc are def going to take a big hit. Many will fold but they will be back in a year or two or however long it takes the vaccines to show up.
godzillabrennus 7y ago
Meeting people face to face is insanely valuable. Here is one example from personal experience. I met someone at a conference in Silicon Valley years ago. Later on I’m doing research for a project and trying to find subject matter experts to lead the effort. In my research I find 15 people who are qualified. Two respond to my attempts to contact them. One dismissed me and the other is that person I met at that conference. He tells me that the only reason he’s talking to me still is we met at the conference. We started working together and it’s been a fruitful endeavor. The moment in person conferences are safe again they will explode. Everyone will want to see other people again,
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
odiroot 7y ago
This might be true but also sounds like it's spoken from a very privileged position. There's probably (tens of?) millions of workers around the world separated from their families. It's not only about tourism and business travel.
- akiselev 7y ago
  > This might be true but also sounds like it's spoken from a very privileged position. What does "privilege" have to do with this conversation? The GP's comment is a prediction about business travel. He made no such prediction about personal travel. > It's not only about tourism and business travel. It is for the hotels and airlines. They make most of their profits on business customers who don't have time to count pennies because they have work to do. When I visit family on the other side of the planet the total cost is often times less than the cost of a week long business trip to New York.

by smoyer 7y ago

buboard 7y ago

TBH i expected this to happen some time. I wonder how much funding agencies like NIH , ERC etc spent on travel grants per year. From my experience it s a lot

ISL 7y ago
There's still a huge difference between meeting people in the halls at conferences or working with them during a seminar-visit and looking at video-conference screens.
- ianhawes 7y ago
  This. I think if anything, there will be a minor bump over the next year or so, but it won't be long until people find out that really connecting still requires meeting in person. We are social creatures after all.
- buboard 7y ago
  Not sure if huge. i ve enjoyed lectures more, and there is a lot of interaction in breakout chat rooms , probably more that RL conferences Also, conferences easily scale to thousands now

jotm 7y ago

I've got a friend who now works from home. Took them all of 3 days to set up. And yet they want her back in the office as soon as possible. Mind boggling to be honest. She's saving so much time and money not commuting and still does the same amount of work. She says she doesn't like it though, the office environment is better. So there's that.

Loughla 7y ago
My institution has been trying to bring people back in some format since day 1. My institution also has an administration that isn't comfortable with only measuring results over actual physical time spent in seats during a project. I know correlation doesn't equal causation, but I'm betting there's a link in this one.
icebraining 7y ago
In fact, my worry is that this event will actually impede WFH. You've got a bunch of people who don't want to WFH, or who have kids at home or other handicaps; the productivity hit will be tremendous, and bosses will feel this. Sure, we can rationally explain it away, but I doubt any of that will stick to a boss who was already on the fence or somewhat against WFH. They will just see their biases confirmed.

lainga 7y ago

I assumed it was important as a power game thing (if you care about my business so much come out here and stand in front of me). When this is all over the people who say "why do you need to fly me out there, we teleconferenced for 2 months" will get slowly written out of the e-mail chains.

chrisseaton 7y ago

I disagree I think people will go on a business travel binge when they're able to.

abdullahkhalids 7y ago

At least in academia, people usually don't go to conferences to attend the talks - they are uploaded on youtube and you could watch them from home. People go because they are good networking events. That is something which you can't really do online. Edit: of course, a minority of attendees are there to present their work, which can indeed be done online.

a3_nm 7y ago
In my academic field (computer science), people go to conferences because you have to present in person the research that you publish there. The question of whether traveling to the conference is worthwhile at all is irrelevant. With conferences moving online, the question starts to have some importance and the answer isn't so clear.
kilroy123 7y ago
Exactly, so many people are missing the point that so many of these events can't just be online and then you call it a day. It's about building relationships and connections. Not just watching presentations.
smoyer 7y ago
I'm not disagreeing that there are networking opportunities ... I work for a university and have been going to a conference or two a year since I started here simply to meet up with people. I think we'll find a way to recoup some of that value remotely and I think that the business will accept that there is some loss in networking rather than pay for the trips. Throughout most of the '90s and '00s, I traveled between a week and two weeks a month for work. There was a huge decline in the "luxury" of flying around the world after 9/11 that's continued to get worse and worse since. Flying anywhere these days is simply a chore.

intended 7y ago

I think people are going to find the opposite, that networking events are even more crucial to growth (evidenced by research), and the ones who didn't realize this before will now fight for the opportunities that come up in firms.

a3_nm 7y ago

> "attending conferences was always fun" Well it's also because there were always disadvantages we forget about: hours upon hours of travel, going on your own, sleeping in unfamiliar rooms, not to mention the cost of it all. Going to a remote place for a few days isn't so fun when you remember all the hours spent in an airplane seat to get there and back.

catalogia 7y ago
> hours upon hours of travel, going on your own, sleeping in unfamiliar rooms How negative those 'negatives' are depends a lot on the individual. Some people prefer routine and freak out when they stray from the routine. But other people find it exciting to stray from routine.

optimiz3 7y ago

Surprised no one has said it so I will: conferences provide a business deductible way to have a nice vacation. Witness how many conferences are in Vegas/Hawaii etc.

econcon 7y ago
In India you don't get input tax credit for travel/conferences afaik.
- optimiz3 7y ago
  Doing it wrong. Your business buys the conference tickets, travel, and some of the lodging. You stay for an extra week. All you pay for is the hotel. Business expenses offset revenue reducing profit and in turn taxes.
quaquaqua1 7y ago
Objectively, this is true. Whether the intent is to actually have a conference or not, the real outcome is that employees are A) in a different location and B) the trip is written off as an expense. Objectively. It is impossible to say that this is not what is happening. It's like saying "The Sun does not shine." It absolutely does shine. We don't know what the motive was for it to shine, but objectively, it is shining.

uoaei 7y ago

I am interested to know how you have found networking and informal discussions surrounding conference talks.

petschge 7y ago

Technical conferences switch to videoconferencing software. But they got much much worse in the process.

puranjay 7y ago

Heck, we've been hosting online improv shows. It's not the real thing but it's fun. Honestly surprised by how quickly we've adopted to the constraints.

coliveira 7y ago

You probably don't get that conferences exist for personal interaction, not just to present technical information. In fact I believe that business travel is what will support the travel industry, since most people will be afraid to take their families on travel without a clear necessity.

op03 7y ago

Not going to happen. You can't do too many deals of any kind just over video chat. You will just loose out to ppl who make the trip to sit hit and hand hold customers/partners/employees/bankers etc. China and South Korea have already started issuing spl permits for biz travellers. Some kind of new system being cooked up there that will probably be replicated all over. Airlines/Tourism/Hotels etc are def going to take a big hit. Many will fold but they will be back in a year or two or however long it takes the vaccines to show up.

godzillabrennus 7y ago

Meeting people face to face is insanely valuable. Here is one example from personal experience. I met someone at a conference in Silicon Valley years ago. Later on I’m doing research for a project and trying to find subject matter experts to lead the effort. In my research I find 15 people who are qualified. Two respond to my attempts to contact them. One dismissed me and the other is that person I met at that conference. He tells me that the only reason he’s talking to me still is we met at the conference. We started working together and it’s been a fruitful endeavor. The moment in person conferences are safe again they will explode. Everyone will want to see other people again,

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

odiroot 7y ago

This might be true but also sounds like it's spoken from a very privileged position. There's probably (tens of?) millions of workers around the world separated from their families. It's not only about tourism and business travel.

akiselev 7y ago
> This might be true but also sounds like it's spoken from a very privileged position. What does "privilege" have to do with this conversation? The GP's comment is a prediction about business travel. He made no such prediction about personal travel. > It's not only about tourism and business travel. It is for the hotels and airlines. They make most of their profits on business customers who don't have time to count pennies because they have work to do. When I visit family on the other side of the planet the total cost is often times less than the cost of a week long business trip to New York.