5 ms·

Pretty silly all around. The main thesis here seems to be "raising children costs money and is sometimes frustrating, and it is therefore illogical and foolish"

Pretty silly all around. The main thesis here seems to be "raising children costs money and is sometimes frustrating, and it is therefore illogical and foolish". When parents say that even though children are raised at significant emotional and financial expense, they are great and awesome, researchers write it off as "illogical" or stupid, and hold up the study as evidence of human irrationality and stupidity, with the implication that smart people wouldn't want children after seeing they cost money. I don't know whether the study really makes the conclusions the article claims, but the article at least is ridiculous in its supposition. If you only care about money, having children is obviously not smart, as children generally cost money and don't produce it, even later in life. If you care about a fulfilling life more than a filled bank account, then raising children is one of the most important activities a person can do.

piguy314 16y ago
It's not just about the money, the article also points out that non-parents have better quality of life in addition to more money: "Researchers have known for some time that parents with minors who live at home report feeling calm significantly less often than than people who don't live with young children. Parents are also angrier and more depressed than nonparents and each additional child makes them even angrier. Couples who choose not to have kids also have better, more satisfying marriages than couples who have kids. "
kokon 16y ago
Couldn't agree more. I have two kids. I've spent a lot of money to make them healthier, smarter, and happier. I want nothing in return except to see them smile and growing to be a wonderful human being. Believe it or not, I'm happy.
alxp 16y ago
The economists' models of the world are notoriously flawed and dangerous precisely because they leave out non-easily-measurable results and consequences.
- CWuestefeld 16y ago
  I couldn't disagree more. It's normal human judgment reactions that are notoriously flawed. For example, the USA's absurd over-reaction to terrorist attacks is something that any economist can tell you is stupid. Modern statistical tools allow economists to ferret out the most obscure factors. They're remarkably good at this, although not infallible -- our continued poor understanding of macro issues is a glaring example, but the topics being discussed here are decidedly micro. I think the real answer to your comment is that economic models are (frequently) far more pointed than people like to admit. When they're forced to confront the fact that their observed behavior doesn't match what they espouse, they prefer to shoot the messenger rather than admit that they're not practicing what they preach.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Modern statistical tools allow economists to ferret out the most obscure factors. Did you read the article? It doesn't ferret out any obscure factors? It has people read an article and then make some statement. And even then it doesn't even compare against those who don't have kids, but wanted kids or a whole slew of other useful controls. But more importantly read the headline to the article, "Does having kids make parents delusional" -- yet NONE of the tests were about that. The tests were "Does Pointing out the Benefits of Parenting Reduce Its Perceived Benefit". That's a totally different story.
tomkarlo 16y ago
while I don't necessarily agree with the article, it does point out (and other research has shown) that it's not just about money, it's about _happiness_. Despite what most parents will tell you the studies have shown that they are generally happier both before and after the children are in the house, and would probably be happier if they didn't have children. You can't argue "I'm happy because I have children" because you don't know how happy you would have been without them (and with all the money and freedom they cost.) I want kids myself but it's not an easy question to answer if they actually make parents happier. It obviously makes parents _think_ they're happier but that's not the same thing.
zaidf 16y ago
children generally cost money and don't produce it, even later in life. Not in all cultures. In mine, kids are expected to grow up and help parents retire and take care of them in old age. From our eyes, seeing a parent off to a retirement home is the worst thing and reflects poorly on the kids.
brosephius 16y ago
you sort of imply that in order to have a fulfilling life, you should have children, which is not remotely true. I agree with your point that it's utterly stupid to look at raising children from a purely financial perspective, but choosing not to have any doesn't mean you're thinking only about money.

piguy314 16y ago

It's not just about the money, the article also points out that non-parents have better quality of life in addition to more money: "Researchers have known for some time that parents with minors who live at home report feeling calm significantly less often than than people who don't live with young children. Parents are also angrier and more depressed than nonparents and each additional child makes them even angrier. Couples who choose not to have kids also have better, more satisfying marriages than couples who have kids. "

kokon 16y ago

Couldn't agree more. I have two kids. I've spent a lot of money to make them healthier, smarter, and happier. I want nothing in return except to see them smile and growing to be a wonderful human being. Believe it or not, I'm happy.

alxp 16y ago

The economists' models of the world are notoriously flawed and dangerous precisely because they leave out non-easily-measurable results and consequences.

CWuestefeld 16y ago
I couldn't disagree more. It's normal human judgment reactions that are notoriously flawed. For example, the USA's absurd over-reaction to terrorist attacks is something that any economist can tell you is stupid. Modern statistical tools allow economists to ferret out the most obscure factors. They're remarkably good at this, although not infallible -- our continued poor understanding of macro issues is a glaring example, but the topics being discussed here are decidedly micro. I think the real answer to your comment is that economic models are (frequently) far more pointed than people like to admit. When they're forced to confront the fact that their observed behavior doesn't match what they espouse, they prefer to shoot the messenger rather than admit that they're not practicing what they preach.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Modern statistical tools allow economists to ferret out the most obscure factors. Did you read the article? It doesn't ferret out any obscure factors? It has people read an article and then make some statement. And even then it doesn't even compare against those who don't have kids, but wanted kids or a whole slew of other useful controls. But more importantly read the headline to the article, "Does having kids make parents delusional" -- yet NONE of the tests were about that. The tests were "Does Pointing out the Benefits of Parenting Reduce Its Perceived Benefit". That's a totally different story.

tomkarlo 16y ago

while I don't necessarily agree with the article, it does point out (and other research has shown) that it's not just about money, it's about _happiness_. Despite what most parents will tell you the studies have shown that they are generally happier both before and after the children are in the house, and would probably be happier if they didn't have children. You can't argue "I'm happy because I have children" because you don't know how happy you would have been without them (and with all the money and freedom they cost.) I want kids myself but it's not an easy question to answer if they actually make parents happier. It obviously makes parents _think_ they're happier but that's not the same thing.

zaidf 16y ago

children generally cost money and don't produce it, even later in life. Not in all cultures. In mine, kids are expected to grow up and help parents retire and take care of them in old age. From our eyes, seeing a parent off to a retirement home is the worst thing and reflects poorly on the kids.

brosephius 16y ago

you sort of imply that in order to have a fulfilling life, you should have children, which is not remotely true. I agree with your point that it's utterly stupid to look at raising children from a purely financial perspective, but choosing not to have any doesn't mean you're thinking only about money.