4 ms·

Just tax them.

by nacho2sweet 6y ago

Just tax them.

donkey-hotei 6y ago
^ This.
benbenolson 6y ago
True gifts are freely given, not forcibly taken.
- 0x262d 6y ago
  People's livelihood and the basic functioning of society shouldn't be a "gift".
- sailfast 6y ago
  Sure, but billionaire money can often also be the result of other things being forcibly taken from society. You're not looking for gifts, you're looking for them to pay the actual cost for what they've obtained. Examples include: Your data, subsidies from your tax dollars to create asymmetric markets, common things like water quality or environment, or legal asymmetry that allows for rent-seeking.
- munk-a 6y ago
  That's sorta the crux of the matter - paying into society isn't a "gift" it's a debt. We all live together and support each other and nobody needs to get showered with glamour for doing their part according to their ability. I don't want Billionaire to feel forced to give "true gifts" through social pressures or otherwise - I'd prefer if their wealth was properly utilized through a just level of taxation.
  - benbenolson 6y ago
    >properly utilized through a just level of taxation Why'd you need so many words to say "taken?"
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
warent 6y ago
I've wondered about this. Would it be possible to have an income/asset tax such that it introduces a wealth cap of some amount which can never be reached? For example, the limit could be $30,000,000 so if you're making more than that in pretax income, your income would be $29,999,999.999 etc. with the fractional cent increasing so people could still compete on a scoreboard. Also, it seems like one of the biggest arguments against capping wealth is that it would disincentive innovation. But just about every person who became billionaires through innovation never had that intention to begin with. I firmly believe Jeff Bezos would still be running Amazon if he had a wealth cap. Mark Zuckerberg would still be running Facebook. No?
- munk-a 6y ago
  An explicit wealth cap seems unnecessary so long as there are appropriately punishing taxes on wealth retention - If there was, say, a 5% wealth tax above 5 or 10 million then Gates & Bezos both would never be able to sustain their fortunes but they would remain fabulously wealthy.
  - ggreer 6y ago
    Their wealth is not a pile of cash or a number in a bank account, it's ownership of the companies they founded. Every year, they would be forced to hand 5% of their shares over to the federal government. If such a tax were implemented 15 years ago, all Fortune 500 companies today would be controlled by congress and Donald Trump. Also both SpaceX and Tesla would have almost certainly gone bankrupt in late 2008 as Musk would not have had the wealth to support both of them.
- rtkwe 6y ago
  An annoying side effect of extreme wealth is they have a lot of money to spend finding ways around taxes. If any country ever does move to a hard wealth limit I imagine there will be a lot of rich people suddenly getting sweetheart deals on 'renting' all the things they used to own from fly by night offshore companies or something.
boudin 6y ago
I wonder on all those donations, how much will grant tax benefits meaning that those donations are actually partially paid by tax donors?

Just tax them.

donkey-hotei 6y ago

^ This.

benbenolson 6y ago

True gifts are freely given, not forcibly taken.

0x262d 6y ago
People's livelihood and the basic functioning of society shouldn't be a "gift".
sailfast 6y ago
Sure, but billionaire money can often also be the result of other things being forcibly taken from society. You're not looking for gifts, you're looking for them to pay the actual cost for what they've obtained. Examples include: Your data, subsidies from your tax dollars to create asymmetric markets, common things like water quality or environment, or legal asymmetry that allows for rent-seeking.
munk-a 6y ago
That's sorta the crux of the matter - paying into society isn't a "gift" it's a debt. We all live together and support each other and nobody needs to get showered with glamour for doing their part according to their ability. I don't want Billionaire to feel forced to give "true gifts" through social pressures or otherwise - I'd prefer if their wealth was properly utilized through a just level of taxation.
- benbenolson 6y ago
  >properly utilized through a just level of taxation Why'd you need so many words to say "taken?"
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

warent 6y ago

I've wondered about this. Would it be possible to have an income/asset tax such that it introduces a wealth cap of some amount which can never be reached? For example, the limit could be $30,000,000 so if you're making more than that in pretax income, your income would be $29,999,999.999 etc. with the fractional cent increasing so people could still compete on a scoreboard. Also, it seems like one of the biggest arguments against capping wealth is that it would disincentive innovation. But just about every person who became billionaires through innovation never had that intention to begin with. I firmly believe Jeff Bezos would still be running Amazon if he had a wealth cap. Mark Zuckerberg would still be running Facebook. No?

munk-a 6y ago
An explicit wealth cap seems unnecessary so long as there are appropriately punishing taxes on wealth retention - If there was, say, a 5% wealth tax above 5 or 10 million then Gates & Bezos both would never be able to sustain their fortunes but they would remain fabulously wealthy.
- ggreer 6y ago
  Their wealth is not a pile of cash or a number in a bank account, it's ownership of the companies they founded. Every year, they would be forced to hand 5% of their shares over to the federal government. If such a tax were implemented 15 years ago, all Fortune 500 companies today would be controlled by congress and Donald Trump. Also both SpaceX and Tesla would have almost certainly gone bankrupt in late 2008 as Musk would not have had the wealth to support both of them.
rtkwe 6y ago
An annoying side effect of extreme wealth is they have a lot of money to spend finding ways around taxes. If any country ever does move to a hard wealth limit I imagine there will be a lot of rich people suddenly getting sweetheart deals on 'renting' all the things they used to own from fly by night offshore companies or something.

boudin 6y ago

I wonder on all those donations, how much will grant tax benefits meaning that those donations are actually partially paid by tax donors?