5 ms·

There is no point since iCloud runs on Google Cloud infrastructure.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
Even if this is true, there's a significant difference in that Google would lose nearly every single one of GCP's customers if it was ever proven they were mining data of their customers' cloud services. And at the very least, it is much harder for Google to correlate a competitors' account systems and user data with their own profiles they use for ad targeting. And of course, most importantly: Apple collects a lot less data when you use their apps. For instance, Maps data is never associated with an Apple ID, and significant work is done to fuzz and scramble the anonymous data they store to avoid it being possible to turn it into data about a real person. In comparison, Google Maps logs your location to your Google account every five minutes.
- lowdose 6y ago
  What is the difference between Apple and you as a customer paying for Google Cloud? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/2/26/17053496/apple-google-cloud-platform-icloud-confirmation https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    The difference is between you being Apple's user and you being Google's product.
    - lowdose 6y ago
      I never read Google discriminates between paying customers before. That's such a wild accusation that it requires serious evidence. Edit: I can reply anymore but just supply a link of data handling discrimination between paying customers because that's what you imply by "there is not difference between GSuite customers and normal gmail". It's bullshit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
      - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
        You're correct in that Google doesn't discriminate between paying and non-paying customers: It happily abuses the privacy of it's paying customers too. Many of Google's uses of data are not specific to whether or not someone is using G Suite or consumer Gmail as far as I am aware.
        SquareWheel 6y ago
        You are not aware, because GSuite has completely different data use policies. https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-whitepaper/page-6.html https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-white...
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        What Gmail data is being abused?
        ocdtrekkie 6y ago
        I can say one of the ones that horrified me the most shortly after I transitioned off of Gmail was Smart Reply. To my knowledge, nobody was able to confirm at the time that even paid G Suite accounts were immune to being used as training data. (If you have insight on this, let me know!) I definitely don't want my email used to train Google's AI models, which might unpredictably cough up sensitive data since machine learning is pretty much a black box. A big issue is that at any time, Google may introduce a new "feature" and decide to use your data to power it. I also think of how purchase data gets extracted from your receipts to store in your Google account profile and the like (https://myaccount.google.com/purchases https://myaccount.google.com/purchases although the text on this page has changed... did they stop?) and I feel a privacy-first service would need to at minimum have switches to control what kind of data processing is performed on their email, and default new features to be off.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        I do know the answer. It's probably in the privacy policy for gsuite somewhere, but that's a long document. I'm unsure if I can share it though. What sensitive information are you concerned about coughing up? While I haven't actually looked closely at how smart reply works, it isn't just a simple lstm on text, it tracks contextual info like recipient names, so "hey " on the first line will autocomple to "Hey Todd and Amanda" if you're sending am email to two people named Todd and Amanda. So there's some tokenization and preprocessing happening, which would avoid most of the potential privacy issues I can think up with something like that (which are all of the form of automoplete linking your name to a private fact).

Even if this is true, there's a significant difference in that Google would lose nearly every single one of GCP's customers if it was ever proven they were mining data of their customers' cloud services. And at the very least, it is much harder for Google to correlate a competitors' account systems and user data with their own profiles they use for ad targeting. And of course, most importantly: Apple collects a lot less data when you use their apps. For instance, Maps data is never associated with an Apple ID, and significant work is done to fuzz and scramble the anonymous data they store to avoid it being possible to turn it into data about a real person. In comparison, Google Maps logs your location to your Google account every five minutes.

lowdose 6y ago
What is the difference between Apple and you as a customer paying for Google Cloud? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/2/26/17053496/apple-google-cloud-platform-icloud-confirmation https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...
- GoblinSlayer 6y ago
  The difference is between you being Apple's user and you being Google's product.
  - lowdose 6y ago
    I never read Google discriminates between paying customers before. That's such a wild accusation that it requires serious evidence. Edit: I can reply anymore but just supply a link of data handling discrimination between paying customers because that's what you imply by "there is not difference between GSuite customers and normal gmail". It's bullshit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      You're correct in that Google doesn't discriminate between paying and non-paying customers: It happily abuses the privacy of it's paying customers too. Many of Google's uses of data are not specific to whether or not someone is using G Suite or consumer Gmail as far as I am aware.
      - SquareWheel 6y ago
        You are not aware, because GSuite has completely different data use policies. https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-whitepaper/page-6.html https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-white...
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        What Gmail data is being abused?
        ocdtrekkie 6y ago
        I can say one of the ones that horrified me the most shortly after I transitioned off of Gmail was Smart Reply. To my knowledge, nobody was able to confirm at the time that even paid G Suite accounts were immune to being used as training data. (If you have insight on this, let me know!) I definitely don't want my email used to train Google's AI models, which might unpredictably cough up sensitive data since machine learning is pretty much a black box. A big issue is that at any time, Google may introduce a new "feature" and decide to use your data to power it. I also think of how purchase data gets extracted from your receipts to store in your Google account profile and the like (https://myaccount.google.com/purchases https://myaccount.google.com/purchases although the text on this page has changed... did they stop?) and I feel a privacy-first service would need to at minimum have switches to control what kind of data processing is performed on their email, and default new features to be off.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        I do know the answer. It's probably in the privacy policy for gsuite somewhere, but that's a long document. I'm unsure if I can share it though. What sensitive information are you concerned about coughing up? While I haven't actually looked closely at how smart reply works, it isn't just a simple lstm on text, it tracks contextual info like recipient names, so "hey " on the first line will autocomple to "Hey Todd and Amanda" if you're sending am email to two people named Todd and Amanda. So there's some tokenization and preprocessing happening, which would avoid most of the potential privacy issues I can think up with something like that (which are all of the form of automoplete linking your name to a private fact).