6 ms·

Moving from Google cloud to Apple cloud, from Google messenger to Facebook messenger... What's the point honestly?

geek_at 7y ago
Looks like they only had beef with google. Switching from pest to cholera could make sense to them
bluGill 7y ago
Having competition is good if only because it keeps companies thinking about the user. Note I carefully said user not customer. Except for Spotify (and his email host) he is not the customer he is the product they sell. However in all cases he is a user.
fred_is_fred 7y ago
You have a valid point on Facebook which may in fact be worse, but Apple's business case is not to hoover up every single piece of information about your life and then sell it to advertisers. They are there to sell hardware and a bit of software. That different motivation leads to different outcomes when a VP asks "should we do this with info we have?"
monsieurgaufre 7y ago
Virtue signaling.
lowdose 7y ago
There is no point since iCloud runs on Google Cloud infrastructure.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  Even if this is true, there's a significant difference in that Google would lose nearly every single one of GCP's customers if it was ever proven they were mining data of their customers' cloud services. And at the very least, it is much harder for Google to correlate a competitors' account systems and user data with their own profiles they use for ad targeting. And of course, most importantly: Apple collects a lot less data when you use their apps. For instance, Maps data is never associated with an Apple ID, and significant work is done to fuzz and scramble the anonymous data they store to avoid it being possible to turn it into data about a real person. In comparison, Google Maps logs your location to your Google account every five minutes.
  - lowdose 7y ago
    What is the difference between Apple and you as a customer paying for Google Cloud? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/2/26/17053496/apple-google-cloud-platform-icloud-confirmation https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...
    - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
      The difference is between you being Apple's user and you being Google's product.
      - lowdose 7y ago
        I never read Google discriminates between paying customers before. That's such a wild accusation that it requires serious evidence. Edit: I can reply anymore but just supply a link of data handling discrimination between paying customers because that's what you imply by "there is not difference between GSuite customers and normal gmail". It's bullshit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
        ocdtrekkie 7y ago
        You're correct in that Google doesn't discriminate between paying and non-paying customers: It happily abuses the privacy of it's paying customers too. Many of Google's uses of data are not specific to whether or not someone is using G Suite or consumer Gmail as far as I am aware.
        SquareWheel 7y ago
        You are not aware, because GSuite has completely different data use policies. https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-whitepaper/page-6.html https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-white...
        joshuamorton 7y ago
taneq 7y ago
I'd much rather three different companies each have a slice of my data than one company have all of my data and be able to cross-reference it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
GoblinSlayer 7y ago
A long journey starts with a small step.
- kgwxd 7y ago
  Forward, not sideways :)
  - aendruk 7y ago
    Critically evaluating your choices is a step forward.
  - rakoo 7y ago
    Depends what your destination is. - If you're going to "autonomy, independance and self-hosting", it's a step sideways for sure - If you're going to "stop giving all my information to a central entity" it's definitely a step forward. Giving a part to Google, a part to Facebook and a part to Apple is better than giving everything to one of them, whichever they are.
  - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
    Direction is up :) and "you belong to google" is local minimum, it's even a little difficult to make it worse.
deeblering4 7y ago
One could argue that Apple does a better job of respecting user privacy, as it is not at the center of their business model.
joshmanders 7y ago
Apple is not an advertising company, they are a product and service company. Google gives free services in exchange for your data. Facebook Messenger I don't get, I'd use Apple Messages over Facebook, or Telegram, etc.
- _-david-_ 7y ago
  >Apple is not an advertising company Except when they are https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074
  - Diesel555 7y ago
    Apple protects your data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Yes they advertise, but you are not the product on services such as cloud. They often cannot physically read your data intentionally.
    - _-david-_ 7y ago
      They sell ads based on intrests and location. This makes them money. How are you not the product? They actually can read your data. They abandoned plans to do end to end encryption [0] on icloud backups. When you get a new iphone you can view all your old messages which means Apple in all likelyhood has access to your private key. [0] https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/21/apple-reportedly-abandoned-end-to-end-icloud/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/21/apple-reportedly-abandoned-en...
huslage 7y ago
WhatsApp is not Facebook Messenger.
geekgonecrazy 7y ago
I should have explained more here. This was only for family communication. Other communication is split up pretty much depending on where the friend is. Convincing people to up and shift is easier said than done. It could be argued it might be better that way because then my data isn't all with one message service. For other communications I use Rocket.Chat for team collab, signal, keybase chat or sms(which if they do happen to have iMessage does convert). I definitely do not trust facebook any more than Google. And I would agree thats a sideways move not an improvement

Looks like they only had beef with google. Switching from pest to cholera could make sense to them

Having competition is good if only because it keeps companies thinking about the user. Note I carefully said user not customer. Except for Spotify (and his email host) he is not the customer he is the product they sell. However in all cases he is a user.

fred_is_fred 7y ago

You have a valid point on Facebook which may in fact be worse, but Apple's business case is not to hoover up every single piece of information about your life and then sell it to advertisers. They are there to sell hardware and a bit of software. That different motivation leads to different outcomes when a VP asks "should we do this with info we have?"

monsieurgaufre 7y ago

Virtue signaling.

lowdose 7y ago

There is no point since iCloud runs on Google Cloud infrastructure.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Even if this is true, there's a significant difference in that Google would lose nearly every single one of GCP's customers if it was ever proven they were mining data of their customers' cloud services. And at the very least, it is much harder for Google to correlate a competitors' account systems and user data with their own profiles they use for ad targeting. And of course, most importantly: Apple collects a lot less data when you use their apps. For instance, Maps data is never associated with an Apple ID, and significant work is done to fuzz and scramble the anonymous data they store to avoid it being possible to turn it into data about a real person. In comparison, Google Maps logs your location to your Google account every five minutes.
- lowdose 7y ago
  What is the difference between Apple and you as a customer paying for Google Cloud? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/2/26/17053496/apple-google-cloud-platform-icloud-confirmation https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...
  - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
    The difference is between you being Apple's user and you being Google's product.
    - lowdose 7y ago
      I never read Google discriminates between paying customers before. That's such a wild accusation that it requires serious evidence. Edit: I can reply anymore but just supply a link of data handling discrimination between paying customers because that's what you imply by "there is not difference between GSuite customers and normal gmail". It's bullshit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
      - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
        You're correct in that Google doesn't discriminate between paying and non-paying customers: It happily abuses the privacy of it's paying customers too. Many of Google's uses of data are not specific to whether or not someone is using G Suite or consumer Gmail as far as I am aware.
        SquareWheel 7y ago
        You are not aware, because GSuite has completely different data use policies. https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-whitepaper/page-6.html https://gsuite.google.com/learn-more/security/security-white...
        joshuamorton 7y ago

taneq 7y ago

I'd much rather three different companies each have a slice of my data than one company have all of my data and be able to cross-reference it.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

GoblinSlayer 7y ago

A long journey starts with a small step.

kgwxd 7y ago
Forward, not sideways :)
- aendruk 7y ago
  Critically evaluating your choices is a step forward.
- rakoo 7y ago
  Depends what your destination is. - If you're going to "autonomy, independance and self-hosting", it's a step sideways for sure - If you're going to "stop giving all my information to a central entity" it's definitely a step forward. Giving a part to Google, a part to Facebook and a part to Apple is better than giving everything to one of them, whichever they are.
- GoblinSlayer 7y ago
  Direction is up :) and "you belong to google" is local minimum, it's even a little difficult to make it worse.

deeblering4 7y ago

One could argue that Apple does a better job of respecting user privacy, as it is not at the center of their business model.

joshmanders 7y ago

Apple is not an advertising company, they are a product and service company. Google gives free services in exchange for your data. Facebook Messenger I don't get, I'd use Apple Messages over Facebook, or Telegram, etc.

_-david-_ 7y ago
>Apple is not an advertising company Except when they are https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074
- Diesel555 7y ago
  Apple protects your data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Yes they advertise, but you are not the product on services such as cloud. They often cannot physically read your data intentionally.
  - _-david-_ 7y ago
    They sell ads based on intrests and location. This makes them money. How are you not the product? They actually can read your data. They abandoned plans to do end to end encryption [0] on icloud backups. When you get a new iphone you can view all your old messages which means Apple in all likelyhood has access to your private key. [0] https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/21/apple-reportedly-abandoned-end-to-end-icloud/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/21/apple-reportedly-abandoned-en...

huslage 7y ago

WhatsApp is not Facebook Messenger.

geekgonecrazy 7y ago

I should have explained more here. This was only for family communication. Other communication is split up pretty much depending on where the friend is. Convincing people to up and shift is easier said than done. It could be argued it might be better that way because then my data isn't all with one message service. For other communications I use Rocket.Chat for team collab, signal, keybase chat or sms(which if they do happen to have iMessage does convert). I definitely do not trust facebook any more than Google. And I would agree thats a sideways move not an improvement