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> I am not so up to date with frontend dev but what's with the hate towards React these days? HN is rarely the place to read constructive comments about JavaSc

> I am not so up to date with frontend dev but what's with the hate towards React these days? HN is rarely the place to read constructive comments about JavaScript and frontend development. Personally I've been developing web apps for 10 years (with technologies such as Spring, ASP.NET, CakePHP, Symfony, Django, jQuery, Backbone.js, Angular 1) and I quite enjoy React. I think it makes my job easier and I feel productive with it. Also, TypeScript is awesome.

kreetx 6y ago
What's a good place for front-end dev discussions, especially the type which are more on the meta-level?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fit2rule 6y ago
  http://lobste.rs http://lobste.rs is a good starting point. Not as much hate there..
  - wtmt 6y ago
    Related question: Does it still require hanging around and waiting for an invite to create an account? If yes, then I’m not going to try again and waste my time.
    - fit2rule 6y ago
      Its not hard to get an invite. I'd invite you if I knew your address. I consider this a slight inconvenience but still a better system than having the dang hammer around to pound spammers ..
- m5r 6y ago
  Twitter can be a good place sometimes /r/webdev, /r/javascript and /r/reactjs too
chadcmulligan 6y ago
Its reaching the point where it is becoming standardised, and therefore not interesting, and so it must pass, and a new framework will become the one to use for web development. It's axiomatic that web development must be cool and new and therefore no framework can ever become a standard.
- sjwright 6y ago
  I still write web in ColdFusion and (mostly) plain JavaScript. Seriously. I’m not cool at all.
  - jaeyson 6y ago
    I'd still say cool tho.
- karolsputo 6y ago
  I see a lot of pro-Svelte comments/entries on HN. It seems to be endorsed stronger than the mainstream, big libraries right now
  - mercer 6y ago
    My impression is that for a lot of developers on HN, a kind of front-end fatigue has grown stronger and stronger. And as a result, there's a preference for various solutions that reduce the amount of 'dynamic javascript' work required. While I'm not particularly hostile to javascript or React myself, I do notice that over time, I tend to avoid it whenever I can. It wasn't too long ago that I made (gentle) fun of Intercooler.js (what happened to that person and their tireless efforts to insert it into any vaguely relevant conversation?), for example. But nowadays, I'm fully on the Phoenix LiveView bandwagon (React/js on the server!), and I would absolutely use Svelte or Intercooler if LiveView wasn't an option, I grumble whenever I need to deal with my js pipeline (Webpack, PostCSS, etc.), and whenever I do need to deal with it, I get an almost existential 'where did things go wrong' feeling. Maybe I'm just getting old, in front-end developer terms anyways. All I know is that for the past year I've barely kept up to date on the latest in React (Hooks?!), CSS (grids? flexbox?), js bundlers, browser features (webworkers? the latest in LocalStorage? webcomponents?), and so on, and instead I've been dealing with databases, servers (nginx, linux, etc.), and other 'back-end' things instead. I feel much, much less frustration because suddenly things stop working and I need to dive into the complex world of webpack and its loaders, CSS and it's various browser incompatibilities, and so on. But I also feel that the things I /do/ learn will probably be valuable for years to come. The insane amount of stuff I've learned about jQuery is practically worthless now. The same goes for Bootstrap and Backbone.js. Or various CSS layout tricks (dear god the floats). But what I'm learning about Postgres and Ngix and Railsy back-ends seems like the kind of stuff I'll be able to use (and make a living off) for a long time to come. I do really like TypeScript though. I'd love to use that more :).
tenaciousDaniel 6y ago
I've been considering the jump into TS, but I don't want to end up in a coffeescript situation (i.e. language is dead, but code lingers on and has to be converted back to JS at some point, rather painfully). Do you think it's worth it?
- slewis 6y ago
  Yes. It’s built by Microsoft and has huge adoption. Typescript is here to stay.
  - akie 6y ago
    What if most of TypeScript is embedded into the next version of JavaScript, as happened with Coffeescript?
    - StrangeSound 6y ago
      Then there's not really a problem. You learned how it works, and now it's one less thing to worry about
      - hombre_fatal 6y ago
        Also, if Javascript got its own type system somehow (not gonna happen anytime soon), you could expect Typescript to compile to it. And you could transition off of Typescript just as gradually as you could transition on to it.
    - zdragnar 6y ago
      Typescript offers almost no runtime behavior. With a few exceptions, everything is stripped out, and it only offers to transpile modern JS features to older browsers. CoffeeScript was all about an alternate syntax for runtime behavior. JS isn't going to get compile time anything. There was an attempt at adding "strong mode" by one of the google / chrome teams iirc and that went nowhere.
      - 6y ago
dandigangi 6y ago
> HN is rarely the place to read constructive comments about JavaScript and frontend development. So, so true. Not even just JS though. Community can be rough on people generally.

kreetx 6y ago

What's a good place for front-end dev discussions, especially the type which are more on the meta-level?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fit2rule 6y ago
http://lobste.rs http://lobste.rs is a good starting point. Not as much hate there..
- wtmt 6y ago
  Related question: Does it still require hanging around and waiting for an invite to create an account? If yes, then I’m not going to try again and waste my time.
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    Its not hard to get an invite. I'd invite you if I knew your address. I consider this a slight inconvenience but still a better system than having the dang hammer around to pound spammers ..
m5r 6y ago
Twitter can be a good place sometimes /r/webdev, /r/javascript and /r/reactjs too

chadcmulligan 6y ago

Its reaching the point where it is becoming standardised, and therefore not interesting, and so it must pass, and a new framework will become the one to use for web development. It's axiomatic that web development must be cool and new and therefore no framework can ever become a standard.

sjwright 6y ago
I still write web in ColdFusion and (mostly) plain JavaScript. Seriously. I’m not cool at all.
- jaeyson 6y ago
  I'd still say cool tho.
karolsputo 6y ago
I see a lot of pro-Svelte comments/entries on HN. It seems to be endorsed stronger than the mainstream, big libraries right now
- mercer 6y ago
  My impression is that for a lot of developers on HN, a kind of front-end fatigue has grown stronger and stronger. And as a result, there's a preference for various solutions that reduce the amount of 'dynamic javascript' work required. While I'm not particularly hostile to javascript or React myself, I do notice that over time, I tend to avoid it whenever I can. It wasn't too long ago that I made (gentle) fun of Intercooler.js (what happened to that person and their tireless efforts to insert it into any vaguely relevant conversation?), for example. But nowadays, I'm fully on the Phoenix LiveView bandwagon (React/js on the server!), and I would absolutely use Svelte or Intercooler if LiveView wasn't an option, I grumble whenever I need to deal with my js pipeline (Webpack, PostCSS, etc.), and whenever I do need to deal with it, I get an almost existential 'where did things go wrong' feeling. Maybe I'm just getting old, in front-end developer terms anyways. All I know is that for the past year I've barely kept up to date on the latest in React (Hooks?!), CSS (grids? flexbox?), js bundlers, browser features (webworkers? the latest in LocalStorage? webcomponents?), and so on, and instead I've been dealing with databases, servers (nginx, linux, etc.), and other 'back-end' things instead. I feel much, much less frustration because suddenly things stop working and I need to dive into the complex world of webpack and its loaders, CSS and it's various browser incompatibilities, and so on. But I also feel that the things I /do/ learn will probably be valuable for years to come. The insane amount of stuff I've learned about jQuery is practically worthless now. The same goes for Bootstrap and Backbone.js. Or various CSS layout tricks (dear god the floats). But what I'm learning about Postgres and Ngix and Railsy back-ends seems like the kind of stuff I'll be able to use (and make a living off) for a long time to come. I do really like TypeScript though. I'd love to use that more :).

tenaciousDaniel 6y ago

I've been considering the jump into TS, but I don't want to end up in a coffeescript situation (i.e. language is dead, but code lingers on and has to be converted back to JS at some point, rather painfully). Do you think it's worth it?

slewis 6y ago
Yes. It’s built by Microsoft and has huge adoption. Typescript is here to stay.
- akie 6y ago
  What if most of TypeScript is embedded into the next version of JavaScript, as happened with Coffeescript?
  - StrangeSound 6y ago
    Then there's not really a problem. You learned how it works, and now it's one less thing to worry about
    - hombre_fatal 6y ago
      Also, if Javascript got its own type system somehow (not gonna happen anytime soon), you could expect Typescript to compile to it. And you could transition off of Typescript just as gradually as you could transition on to it.
  - zdragnar 6y ago
    Typescript offers almost no runtime behavior. With a few exceptions, everything is stripped out, and it only offers to transpile modern JS features to older browsers. CoffeeScript was all about an alternate syntax for runtime behavior. JS isn't going to get compile time anything. There was an attempt at adding "strong mode" by one of the google / chrome teams iirc and that went nowhere.
    - 6y ago

dandigangi 6y ago

> HN is rarely the place to read constructive comments about JavaScript and frontend development. So, so true. Not even just JS though. Community can be rough on people generally.