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Let’s put it straight: HTML is a Hypertext Markup Language by definition, it’s not an application UI markup language. We are living in a very confused world whe

Let’s put it straight: HTML is a Hypertext Markup Language by definition, it’s not an application UI markup language. We are living in a very confused world where inappropriate standard is used just because nothing better got sufficiently big market share. ES, TS, CSS, all the libraries and frameworks in the ecosystem are all just attempts to make the whale fly. For last 20 years we should have been focusing on building semantic web on HTML, while RAD tools should have been standardizing APIs and UIs across platforms on different, probably similarly looking standards (I’d prefer seeing there some DSL with C-like syntax). Unfortunately we have to deal with what we have - jquery, React, Angular etc, the tools that have not invented anything that we haven’t seen yet, but which pretend to be a silver bullet for solving complexity which should not exist in the first place.

osdiab 7y ago
On that I agree, I do wish there was a better cross-platform application UI platform. But it doesn’t exist, so as such beggars can’t be choosers.
baddox 7y ago
It would be a strange choice to not use the best tool for the job because one of the acronyms that’s related to that tool stands for something that for historical reasons doesn’t precisely describe the job.
- ivan_gammel 7y ago
  Agree. My point is that it's the best available AND the worst among those which could be standardized.
villuv 7y ago
Totally agree! Additionally I think it goes beyond HTML, it is also HTTP protocol that has been bent and hacked to make proper event-based UI to work with (originally) stateless request-response concept in responsive and secure way. It often deeply frustrates me when I find myself struggling to solve some stupid problem that was completely non-issue 20+ years ago when I was writing applications in Delphi on Windows 95. What happened, guys?
- emerongi 7y ago
  Browsers also don't provide the necessary tools to actually build interactive UIs without reaching for external libraries. If you want to allow the user to select date or time in a decent user-friendly way... you just have to pull some JS thing in. Dropdowns/select boxes still only provide the most basic capability; multiselect sucks, need to pull in another JS thing. The list can go on. Even if your application is 90% non-interactive, the remaining 10% could end up introducing a lot of complexity only because browsers haven't advanced on that front at all in the past decade. And that 10% could easily outweigh the 90% when it comes to the architecture of your application - you get frustrated with the jumblefuck of JS littered randomly around to support X feature on Y page and so you just grab React and build a more manageable thing with it. The standards committees for the Web have seriously dropped the ball.

osdiab 7y ago

On that I agree, I do wish there was a better cross-platform application UI platform. But it doesn’t exist, so as such beggars can’t be choosers.

baddox 7y ago

It would be a strange choice to not use the best tool for the job because one of the acronyms that’s related to that tool stands for something that for historical reasons doesn’t precisely describe the job.

ivan_gammel 7y ago
Agree. My point is that it's the best available AND the worst among those which could be standardized.

villuv 7y ago

Totally agree! Additionally I think it goes beyond HTML, it is also HTTP protocol that has been bent and hacked to make proper event-based UI to work with (originally) stateless request-response concept in responsive and secure way. It often deeply frustrates me when I find myself struggling to solve some stupid problem that was completely non-issue 20+ years ago when I was writing applications in Delphi on Windows 95. What happened, guys?

emerongi 7y ago
Browsers also don't provide the necessary tools to actually build interactive UIs without reaching for external libraries. If you want to allow the user to select date or time in a decent user-friendly way... you just have to pull some JS thing in. Dropdowns/select boxes still only provide the most basic capability; multiselect sucks, need to pull in another JS thing. The list can go on. Even if your application is 90% non-interactive, the remaining 10% could end up introducing a lot of complexity only because browsers haven't advanced on that front at all in the past decade. And that 10% could easily outweigh the 90% when it comes to the architecture of your application - you get frustrated with the jumblefuck of JS littered randomly around to support X feature on Y page and so you just grab React and build a more manageable thing with it. The standards committees for the Web have seriously dropped the ball.