4 ms·

It's with your logic that we have the anti-vax movement, the anti-gmo one, flat-earthers and so on and so forth.

by zouhair 6y ago

teh_infallible 6y ago
Do you feel threatened by voices you disagree with? Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy?
- James_Henry 6y ago
  Perhaps people feel like these dissenting voices are threatening the pillars of our democracy!
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    Dissent is a pillar of democracy.
    - James_Henry 6y ago
      What are the other pillars and what if one dissents against them? I'm not saying that's happening here, but not all dissent is tolerable, no?
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        Some people would say the access of all citizens to firearms. Should we censor anyone who opposes that? What about people promoting censorship? Should they be censored as a threat to free speech? There is no idea so dangerous that it can't be discussed. Whether you should act on the dissenters' opinions is a completely separate matter.
- surfpel 6y ago
  It’s all fun and games until your kid gets polio...
  - legolas2412 6y ago
    You can allow antivax movements to voice their flawed arguments and yet make vaccines mandatory. You can allow them to speak yet consider their opinions worthless.
    - zouhair 6y ago
      Yeah, that's what's happening and kids are dead because of it and more will do. Total free speech is cancer.
      - legolas2412 6y ago
        They won't be dead if you make vaccines mandatory, but don't shut down free speech of anti-vaccers. Speaking against vaccines should be allowed. Not taking vaccines should not be
- raverbashing 6y ago
  Everybody that disagree should go out and do as they want. Let them go take a walk in the hospital without a mask, it's all a game, no? But then don't come choked up to the hospital unable to breathe and take the place of a person who followed the recommendations. You decided to do it, you deal with the consequences. Discussion and debate is important, acting like a spoiled Karen isn't.
- zouhair 6y ago
  > Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy? No, not all dissenting voices are equal. When your opinion is factually wrong you should not be allowed in the public discourse.
john_minsk 6y ago
Great. Don’t have problem with that. Why do you?
- notechback 6y ago
  Why would you not have a problem with the anti-vax movement spreading disinfo and getting kids killed of diseases that had been eradicated in the country?
  - RonanTheGrey 6y ago
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be bought at the price of chains and slavery?" Chains and slavery being a bit overstated, but hey that's the quote. In the long term, those few lives matter less than the billions - trillions - uncountable quadrillions - who benefit from free, Liberal cultures (capital L, not lowercase). This is not because the ends justify the means; they do not -- it is because the freedom to choose, even your own death by Darwin, is a pillar of a free society.
    - zouhair 6y ago
      > freedom to choose, even your own death by Darwin, is a pillar of a free society People who don't want to stay home anymore are not a danger to themselves only, I could not care less if they die, I actually prefer if they do. But by not following distancing orders they are a danger to others. As of touting this as some kind of Freedom Fight is mostly a load of bullcrap. What you are missing in your perfect world is that we should not tolerate the intolerant.[0] You want to risk your life, go at it, but you should not be allowed to risk the lives of others. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
      - RonanTheGrey 6y ago
        > People who don't want to stay home anymore are not a danger to themselves only, I could not care less if they die, I actually prefer if they do. But by not following distancing orders they are a danger to others. So are all the people who get the flu every year. Oh by the way which yearly kills more than has been killed yet by COVID. Guess we should lock up all those war criminals! > What you are missing in your perfect world lol... gotta love HN commenters who live such cozy lives that they have absolutely no perspective. Check your privilege, is that the saying? THIS is what your "stay at home" order has caused: https://reportediario.com.mx/noticias/vallarta/filas-de-cientos-de-gente-esperando-despensa https://reportediario.com.mx/noticias/vallarta/filas-de-cien.... THIS is what I live around. THIS is what I see. Hundreds of thousands, millions, starving and dying, so that comfortable Americans and Europeans can posh off about how "go out and you'll kill people". You don't give a shit about people ACTUALLY suffering. Just the hypothetical ones your brain tells you about, but you don't even care about the same hypothetical ones who carry the flu.
BiteCode_dev 6y ago
Nobody can setup a list of allowed topics, controversies or debates for society without destroying its ability to grow: any rule will eventually lead to censor a valid point. 20 years ago, when you talked about mass surveillance, you were a paranoid conspirationist or a crook. 70 years ago, when spoke against the vietnam war, you were anti-patriotic or a communist. Not to mention we can be wrong now, or right now but wrong in the future.

It's with your logic that we have the anti-vax movement, the anti-gmo one, flat-earthers and so on and so forth.

teh_infallible 6y ago

Do you feel threatened by voices you disagree with? Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy?

James_Henry 6y ago
Perhaps people feel like these dissenting voices are threatening the pillars of our democracy!
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  Dissent is a pillar of democracy.
  - James_Henry 6y ago
    What are the other pillars and what if one dissents against them? I'm not saying that's happening here, but not all dissent is tolerable, no?
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      Some people would say the access of all citizens to firearms. Should we censor anyone who opposes that? What about people promoting censorship? Should they be censored as a threat to free speech? There is no idea so dangerous that it can't be discussed. Whether you should act on the dissenters' opinions is a completely separate matter.
surfpel 6y ago
It’s all fun and games until your kid gets polio...
- legolas2412 6y ago
  You can allow antivax movements to voice their flawed arguments and yet make vaccines mandatory. You can allow them to speak yet consider their opinions worthless.
  - zouhair 6y ago
    Yeah, that's what's happening and kids are dead because of it and more will do. Total free speech is cancer.
    - legolas2412 6y ago
      They won't be dead if you make vaccines mandatory, but don't shut down free speech of anti-vaccers. Speaking against vaccines should be allowed. Not taking vaccines should not be
raverbashing 6y ago
Everybody that disagree should go out and do as they want. Let them go take a walk in the hospital without a mask, it's all a game, no? But then don't come choked up to the hospital unable to breathe and take the place of a person who followed the recommendations. You decided to do it, you deal with the consequences. Discussion and debate is important, acting like a spoiled Karen isn't.
zouhair 6y ago
> Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy? No, not all dissenting voices are equal. When your opinion is factually wrong you should not be allowed in the public discourse.

john_minsk 6y ago

Great. Don’t have problem with that. Why do you?

notechback 6y ago
Why would you not have a problem with the anti-vax movement spreading disinfo and getting kids killed of diseases that had been eradicated in the country?
- RonanTheGrey 6y ago
  "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be bought at the price of chains and slavery?" Chains and slavery being a bit overstated, but hey that's the quote. In the long term, those few lives matter less than the billions - trillions - uncountable quadrillions - who benefit from free, Liberal cultures (capital L, not lowercase). This is not because the ends justify the means; they do not -- it is because the freedom to choose, even your own death by Darwin, is a pillar of a free society.
  - zouhair 6y ago
    > freedom to choose, even your own death by Darwin, is a pillar of a free society People who don't want to stay home anymore are not a danger to themselves only, I could not care less if they die, I actually prefer if they do. But by not following distancing orders they are a danger to others. As of touting this as some kind of Freedom Fight is mostly a load of bullcrap. What you are missing in your perfect world is that we should not tolerate the intolerant.[0] You want to risk your life, go at it, but you should not be allowed to risk the lives of others. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
    - RonanTheGrey 6y ago
      > People who don't want to stay home anymore are not a danger to themselves only, I could not care less if they die, I actually prefer if they do. But by not following distancing orders they are a danger to others. So are all the people who get the flu every year. Oh by the way which yearly kills more than has been killed yet by COVID. Guess we should lock up all those war criminals! > What you are missing in your perfect world lol... gotta love HN commenters who live such cozy lives that they have absolutely no perspective. Check your privilege, is that the saying? THIS is what your "stay at home" order has caused: https://reportediario.com.mx/noticias/vallarta/filas-de-cientos-de-gente-esperando-despensa https://reportediario.com.mx/noticias/vallarta/filas-de-cien.... THIS is what I live around. THIS is what I see. Hundreds of thousands, millions, starving and dying, so that comfortable Americans and Europeans can posh off about how "go out and you'll kill people". You don't give a shit about people ACTUALLY suffering. Just the hypothetical ones your brain tells you about, but you don't even care about the same hypothetical ones who carry the flu.

BiteCode_dev 6y ago

Nobody can setup a list of allowed topics, controversies or debates for society without destroying its ability to grow: any rule will eventually lead to censor a valid point. 20 years ago, when you talked about mass surveillance, you were a paranoid conspirationist or a crook. 70 years ago, when spoke against the vietnam war, you were anti-patriotic or a communist. Not to mention we can be wrong now, or right now but wrong in the future.