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Except that we have proof, at least as far as the US Government is concerned. Snowden provided us with proof in abundance that they will "find a way". How any

Except that we have proof, at least as far as the US Government is concerned. Snowden provided us with proof in abundance that they will "find a way". How anyone can consider this a gray area in 2020 is beyond me.

ggggtez 6y ago
This comment thread really is nonsense. So Facebook and the government are secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records while secretly they cooporate the whole time and the case was never actually tried? What planet are you on? And the proof is Snowden, because... ??? Or are you all just agreeing you have your own conspiracy theories, and aren't directly commenting on what each other are saying?
- dexen 6y ago
  >secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records A simple & plausible scenario: a governmental agency requests Facebook conducts a broad surveillance sweep. Facebook resists for obvious reasons, goes to court. Somebody at the middle level of one talks to somebody at the middle level of the other, figure out what the agency really wants - a small, well specified chunk of data - which gets requested separately & promptly delivered. Having gotten enough data now, the agency lets the original, big case falter simply by limiting the efforts and expenditures. That's not even conspiracy, that's just a bunch of people figuring out how to quickly get done with their mundane responsibilities. #BanalityOfEvil
  - ycombi3 6y ago
    And this is how it's done unfortunately.
- duncan_bayne 6y ago
  > So Facebook and the government are secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records while secretly they cooporate the whole time and the case was never actually tried? What planet are you on? That's, ummm, not my point at all, and I honestly don't see how you took it from what I wrote. What I meant was just that Snowden's revelations revealed a bunch of 'alternative' methods, beyond a court-ordered wiretap. Collusion, cable tapping, shipping intercepts ... all seem to have been on the table for the NSA and GCHQ. My point was just that I'd be very surprised if this court result prevented the type of interception that was being requested.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, regardless of how wrong other commenters are or you feel they are. Lashing out like this convinces no one, and only discredits your case—which, if you know more of the truth than others, is a bad thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

ggggtez 6y ago

This comment thread really is nonsense. So Facebook and the government are secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records while secretly they cooporate the whole time and the case was never actually tried? What planet are you on? And the proof is Snowden, because... ??? Or are you all just agreeing you have your own conspiracy theories, and aren't directly commenting on what each other are saying?

dexen 6y ago
>secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records A simple & plausible scenario: a governmental agency requests Facebook conducts a broad surveillance sweep. Facebook resists for obvious reasons, goes to court. Somebody at the middle level of one talks to somebody at the middle level of the other, figure out what the agency really wants - a small, well specified chunk of data - which gets requested separately & promptly delivered. Having gotten enough data now, the agency lets the original, big case falter simply by limiting the efforts and expenditures. That's not even conspiracy, that's just a bunch of people figuring out how to quickly get done with their mundane responsibilities. #BanalityOfEvil
- ycombi3 6y ago
  And this is how it's done unfortunately.
duncan_bayne 6y ago
> So Facebook and the government are secretly working together in a conspiracy to falsify court records while secretly they cooporate the whole time and the case was never actually tried? What planet are you on? That's, ummm, not my point at all, and I honestly don't see how you took it from what I wrote. What I meant was just that Snowden's revelations revealed a bunch of 'alternative' methods, beyond a court-ordered wiretap. Collusion, cable tapping, shipping intercepts ... all seem to have been on the table for the NSA and GCHQ. My point was just that I'd be very surprised if this court result prevented the type of interception that was being requested.
dang 6y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, regardless of how wrong other commenters are or you feel they are. Lashing out like this convinces no one, and only discredits your case—which, if you know more of the truth than others, is a bad thing. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html