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I've been home schooling my son for the past 3 years. The reason why it's "too hard" is because the traditional model of learning in public schools (in the US)

I've been home schooling my son for the past 3 years. The reason why it's "too hard" is because the traditional model of learning in public schools (in the US) translates very poorly to home schooling. Once you stop focusing on grooming for optimal test-taking, a whole world opens up. Additionally, we don't do common core in our household, so my wife and I have no issues teaching my son math (we settled on Saxon math). I neither have the time nor energy to learn common core math in order to support my son.

flatline 6y ago
My experience with common core has been pretty awesome FWIW. I didn’t see some of the stuff our daughter did in first and second grade till the end of high school and college. No more rote arithmetic applications, it presses for actual comprehension of the material from multiple angles. Challenging, but sometimes even fun for those not mathematically inclined.
- dorchadas 6y ago
  Yeah, a lot of the hate I saw for common core (I'm a high school math/physics teacher) comes from a lack of number sense on the adults trying to understand it. Like, I saw parents who were complaining about breaking 634x127 into (600+30+4)(100+20+7) because they didn't understand you can break it up like that and it makes it a bit easier to do the multiplication, then you can just sum the resuts. Sadly, a lot of the elementary school teachers I've encountered also lack that number sense, and some even detest(ed) math. And yet we're asking them to teach it to our kids. I'm not for charter schools usually, but I'd really love to start a charter elementary school where each subject is taught by someone trained in that subject and then with, say, a MAT in elementary ed, as opposed to just a bachelors in elementary ed. I wonder how much better kids would do in math and reading especially, when they have teachers who appreciate math and who like to study literature and read for its own sake.
  - linuxftw 6y ago
    > breaking 634x127 into (600+30+4)(100+20+7) For some people, this is simply too abstract. You can teach children the breakout method or normal method, their understanding doesn't change. They're just memorizing one procedure over another. The ability to analyze how to operations work doesn't improve with common core, it's just more steps. I've seen this first hand. I taught long division to a younger family member that was struggling with whatever nonsense method common core cooked up (something about boxes and dots and circling stuff). They had literally never seen long division, I taught them to divide the same numbers they had on the page in front of them in less than 10 minutes, and they could arrive at the correct answer consistently. I asked the kid to explain the procedure of what they were doing for the common core, they had no idea and lacked the ability to articulate the process whatsoever.
    - icelancer 6y ago
      >> I've seen this first hand. I taught long division to a younger family member that was struggling with whatever nonsense method common core cooked up (something about boxes and dots and circling stuff). Yeah, this is happening to my oldest child - they're on multiplication and division and when I showed them short and long division, they had no idea what I was doing. Common core mathematics is far more memorization and repetition. You don't derive how to actually solve the problem. It's shocking to me that this is the sole method we're teaching kids. EDIT: And I actually like the Common Core methodology. But it's very mathematically incomplete.
      - eitally 6y ago
        wtf -- you're 100% wrong. Common Core exactly shows you how to solve problems. It precisely does not focus on rote memorization. Yes, you need to memorize "math facts", but this is limited to simple multiplication tables (and similar). The entire point of Common Core is to teach multiple algorithms by which students can solve problems for which they recognize the pattern. Back in the 90s, when I was in school, I don't recall this kind of rigor in math at all until I got to Calc 2 and needed to actually focus on memorizing patterns & rules for solving integrals. Everything, at that time, was rote memorization.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    > I saw parents who were complaining about breaking 634x127 into (600+30+4)(100+20+7) because they didn't understand you can break it up like that and it makes it a bit easier to do the multiplication, then you can just sum the resuts. That's just a more explicit explanation of multiplication in pre-common core math. It's just a different explanation for the same thing.
    - dorchadas 6y ago
      That's exactly the problem though. Parents and some teachers don't realize that. They have no clue what they're actually doing, they just follow the algorithm. Which means they have no number sense either, and don't get that they can break up into easier to solve ways and play around with numbers.
      - dehrmann 6y ago
        > and some teachers I guess these are third grade teachers, so maybe it's not a big deal, but WTF?
        dorchadas 6y ago
        No, it's an extremely big deal as they're the ones tasked with teaching kids how to do it. Blind leading the blind, and so they just memorize whatever new algorithm there is with no explanation from the teacher as to why it works, because the teacher themselves don't know! It makes it a real pain in the ass when they get to high school and try to work with variables, as they have no clue how numbers work.
TheHegemon 6y ago
I'm unsure of what everyone's concern with common core is. It was way easier to teach my kid's once I realized that it's just what I've always been doing in my head without anyone telling me to. It's just about breaking apart problems into digestible pieces.
- supercanuck 6y ago
  a large segment of the population would have to come to grips with the fact that they didn't understand their math classes.
  - asdff 6y ago
    Math education in the U.S. is notoriously behind the rest of the world. It's about time. Speaking as someone who barely passed undergrad calculus and still has nightmares from that 7 problem 4 hour final exam.
    - dorchadas 6y ago
      Honestly, a lot of it is because of elementary school teachers in my opinion. I don't want to bash them too much, but they often struggle(d) with math. They don't have much of a number sense, and now we're asking them to teach our kids how to have number sense (which is what common core does; it shows that 65+37 = 70+32, etc etc). I actually remember my 6th grade math teacher specifically for this reason. She explained things to us in a way that gave us number sense, instead of just memorizing rote steps. It made my math skills so much better, and I'm still thankful for that today. Sadly, it was only one teacher at the entire school. I'd love to start a charter elementary school (as much as I generally dislike the concept of a school getting state/federal funding with no testing accountability) where each subject is taught by someone who actually studied the subject, not just "elementary education". Then you might see kids enjoy math and understand it, as their teachers understand and enjoy it and can teach that; it's infectious. I wouldn't be surprised if reading scores also raised when kids are taught by people who clearly enjoy reading and are passionate about reading.
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Do you both work? I've seen parents try to work from home remotely, while also taking care of and schooling their kids, and it seems like a nightmare.
- zarkov99 6y ago
  Its a pain, but it can be managed, specially if the teaching methods are adapted to the situation.
- icelancer 6y ago
  Yeah, that's where I am at. My partner works full-time (1-2 days in the office, the rest remote), and I work two full-time jobs (my company + another FT job) remotely, with no childcare. Our lives/schedules were built around 20 hours of childcare/school per week, and without it, it's been a nightmare. Productivity is at an all-time low. Not really sure what to do about it.
- eitally 6y ago
  Nightmare is a strong word, but it is very hard. We have a 3yo, a 3rd grader and a 5th grader. If it weren't for the 3yo we'd probably be in decent shape because our kids are generally pretty mature and well-adjusted, and academically competent. That said, they've had to not just focus on continuing to learn the curriculum, but also learn a bunch of new tools (with little help), and also learn to type because handwriting isn't really an option anymore. They're struggling through the "this is the first time I'm alone with a computer" growing pains. The toddler is the real monkey wrench, to the point where I've started trying to split the older kids' schedules so one focuses on school in the morning and the other in the afternoon, and they split time interacting with their little sister. It's not remotely fair to anyone and I feel horribly guilty about it, but it's where we are right now and everyone's making the best of it.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    A 3 year old doesn't need self-directed on-computer lessons...

flatline 6y ago

My experience with common core has been pretty awesome FWIW. I didn’t see some of the stuff our daughter did in first and second grade till the end of high school and college. No more rote arithmetic applications, it presses for actual comprehension of the material from multiple angles. Challenging, but sometimes even fun for those not mathematically inclined.

dorchadas 6y ago
Yeah, a lot of the hate I saw for common core (I'm a high school math/physics teacher) comes from a lack of number sense on the adults trying to understand it. Like, I saw parents who were complaining about breaking 634x127 into (600+30+4)(100+20+7) because they didn't understand you can break it up like that and it makes it a bit easier to do the multiplication, then you can just sum the resuts. Sadly, a lot of the elementary school teachers I've encountered also lack that number sense, and some even detest(ed) math. And yet we're asking them to teach it to our kids. I'm not for charter schools usually, but I'd really love to start a charter elementary school where each subject is taught by someone trained in that subject and then with, say, a MAT in elementary ed, as opposed to just a bachelors in elementary ed. I wonder how much better kids would do in math and reading especially, when they have teachers who appreciate math and who like to study literature and read for its own sake.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  > breaking 634x127 into (600+30+4)(100+20+7) For some people, this is simply too abstract. You can teach children the breakout method or normal method, their understanding doesn't change. They're just memorizing one procedure over another. The ability to analyze how to operations work doesn't improve with common core, it's just more steps. I've seen this first hand. I taught long division to a younger family member that was struggling with whatever nonsense method common core cooked up (something about boxes and dots and circling stuff). They had literally never seen long division, I taught them to divide the same numbers they had on the page in front of them in less than 10 minutes, and they could arrive at the correct answer consistently. I asked the kid to explain the procedure of what they were doing for the common core, they had no idea and lacked the ability to articulate the process whatsoever.
  - icelancer 6y ago
    >> I've seen this first hand. I taught long division to a younger family member that was struggling with whatever nonsense method common core cooked up (something about boxes and dots and circling stuff). Yeah, this is happening to my oldest child - they're on multiplication and division and when I showed them short and long division, they had no idea what I was doing. Common core mathematics is far more memorization and repetition. You don't derive how to actually solve the problem. It's shocking to me that this is the sole method we're teaching kids. EDIT: And I actually like the Common Core methodology. But it's very mathematically incomplete.
    - eitally 6y ago
      wtf -- you're 100% wrong. Common Core exactly shows you how to solve problems. It precisely does not focus on rote memorization. Yes, you need to memorize "math facts", but this is limited to simple multiplication tables (and similar). The entire point of Common Core is to teach multiple algorithms by which students can solve problems for which they recognize the pattern. Back in the 90s, when I was in school, I don't recall this kind of rigor in math at all until I got to Calc 2 and needed to actually focus on memorizing patterns & rules for solving integrals. Everything, at that time, was rote memorization.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  > I saw parents who were complaining about breaking 634x127 into (600+30+4)(100+20+7) because they didn't understand you can break it up like that and it makes it a bit easier to do the multiplication, then you can just sum the resuts. That's just a more explicit explanation of multiplication in pre-common core math. It's just a different explanation for the same thing.
  - dorchadas 6y ago
    That's exactly the problem though. Parents and some teachers don't realize that. They have no clue what they're actually doing, they just follow the algorithm. Which means they have no number sense either, and don't get that they can break up into easier to solve ways and play around with numbers.
    - dehrmann 6y ago
      > and some teachers I guess these are third grade teachers, so maybe it's not a big deal, but WTF?
      - dorchadas 6y ago
        No, it's an extremely big deal as they're the ones tasked with teaching kids how to do it. Blind leading the blind, and so they just memorize whatever new algorithm there is with no explanation from the teacher as to why it works, because the teacher themselves don't know! It makes it a real pain in the ass when they get to high school and try to work with variables, as they have no clue how numbers work.

TheHegemon 6y ago

I'm unsure of what everyone's concern with common core is. It was way easier to teach my kid's once I realized that it's just what I've always been doing in my head without anyone telling me to. It's just about breaking apart problems into digestible pieces.

supercanuck 6y ago
a large segment of the population would have to come to grips with the fact that they didn't understand their math classes.
- asdff 6y ago
  Math education in the U.S. is notoriously behind the rest of the world. It's about time. Speaking as someone who barely passed undergrad calculus and still has nightmares from that 7 problem 4 hour final exam.
  - dorchadas 6y ago
    Honestly, a lot of it is because of elementary school teachers in my opinion. I don't want to bash them too much, but they often struggle(d) with math. They don't have much of a number sense, and now we're asking them to teach our kids how to have number sense (which is what common core does; it shows that 65+37 = 70+32, etc etc). I actually remember my 6th grade math teacher specifically for this reason. She explained things to us in a way that gave us number sense, instead of just memorizing rote steps. It made my math skills so much better, and I'm still thankful for that today. Sadly, it was only one teacher at the entire school. I'd love to start a charter elementary school (as much as I generally dislike the concept of a school getting state/federal funding with no testing accountability) where each subject is taught by someone who actually studied the subject, not just "elementary education". Then you might see kids enjoy math and understand it, as their teachers understand and enjoy it and can teach that; it's infectious. I wouldn't be surprised if reading scores also raised when kids are taught by people who clearly enjoy reading and are passionate about reading.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

Do you both work? I've seen parents try to work from home remotely, while also taking care of and schooling their kids, and it seems like a nightmare.

zarkov99 6y ago
Its a pain, but it can be managed, specially if the teaching methods are adapted to the situation.
icelancer 6y ago
Yeah, that's where I am at. My partner works full-time (1-2 days in the office, the rest remote), and I work two full-time jobs (my company + another FT job) remotely, with no childcare. Our lives/schedules were built around 20 hours of childcare/school per week, and without it, it's been a nightmare. Productivity is at an all-time low. Not really sure what to do about it.
eitally 6y ago
Nightmare is a strong word, but it is very hard. We have a 3yo, a 3rd grader and a 5th grader. If it weren't for the 3yo we'd probably be in decent shape because our kids are generally pretty mature and well-adjusted, and academically competent. That said, they've had to not just focus on continuing to learn the curriculum, but also learn a bunch of new tools (with little help), and also learn to type because handwriting isn't really an option anymore. They're struggling through the "this is the first time I'm alone with a computer" growing pains. The toddler is the real monkey wrench, to the point where I've started trying to split the older kids' schedules so one focuses on school in the morning and the other in the afternoon, and they split time interacting with their little sister. It's not remotely fair to anyone and I feel horribly guilty about it, but it's where we are right now and everyone's making the best of it.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  A 3 year old doesn't need self-directed on-computer lessons...