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Have you ever been in the military? From my time in the USMC, it was a meritocratic institution where your race was irrelevant, and overt racists wouldn't last

by dx87 6y ago

Have you ever been in the military? From my time in the USMC, it was a meritocratic institution where your race was irrelevant, and overt racists wouldn't last long. Do you have any sources to back up the "strong ties to white nationalism" and plenty of likeminded KKK type racists?

pnw_hazor 6y ago
In the Army, it seems racists were sniffed out early as possible. I was a trainee leader (Asst Platoon Guide whatever that means). One of the "perks" of my leadership role was bunking with two racist assholes (one black one white) who naturally hated each other. As soon as the drill instructors noticed the behavior of those two, all three of us were moved into a room. To keep an eye on them? Punish me? Who knows what the Army logic was. Anyway, they both were chaptered out before completing training (AIT). I am sure there a few racists but they must keep it on the downlow. The biggest problem I saw later was between Cuban Americans and Black Americans.
teachrdan 6y ago
This is from the Military Times this year: "More than one-third of all active-duty troops and more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism within the ranks in recent months, according to the latest survey of active-duty Military Times readers." From the article, "Signs of white supremacy, extremism up again in poll of active-duty troops" https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02/06/signs-of-white-supremacy-extremism-up-again-in-poll-of-active-duty-troops/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02...
- koheripbal 6y ago
  > The vast majority... are not racist... ...and... > more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism... These do not contradict. It only takes one person in one hundred to expose half the group to their racist ideas. It's also not surprising that the most racist people are also the loudest.
  - teachrdan 6y ago
    The narrative in this thread is that, not only will serving in the military make you un-racist, but that those who continue to be racist will be expelled. The fact that most respondents who are people of color have personally witnessed racism in recent months indicates otherwise. The burden of proof is on you to show that it's only "one person in a hundred" who exposes people to their racist ideas--and to explain why they are permitted to stay in the military if they "are also the loudest."
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      This is an impossible bar you're setting. People of color face racism in society in general. Where is your evidence that the military is so much worse that reforming a skinhead would be impossible? Maybe you should stop looking for narratives, and start looking for truth.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
This is a good starting point outlining some of the major incidents https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationalists-extremists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationa... I don't expect the commanders still preach a racist creed like they did for the first ~150 years, but they still tend to just ignore soldier's ties to white supremacy. For example, the USMC finally outlawed the public display of the Confederate flag this month. And white supremacy groups have long viewed the armed forces as a useful training ground.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? 30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? It's hard to believe he was able to "get away from this world" in the Navy, an institution where that world very much still existed. It may have happened, but it also sounds like using your time in the military to shield you from criticism. >30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed I was providing sources showing links with white supremacy, not racist events.

by dx87 6y ago

pnw_hazor 6y ago

In the Army, it seems racists were sniffed out early as possible. I was a trainee leader (Asst Platoon Guide whatever that means). One of the "perks" of my leadership role was bunking with two racist assholes (one black one white) who naturally hated each other. As soon as the drill instructors noticed the behavior of those two, all three of us were moved into a room. To keep an eye on them? Punish me? Who knows what the Army logic was. Anyway, they both were chaptered out before completing training (AIT). I am sure there a few racists but they must keep it on the downlow. The biggest problem I saw later was between Cuban Americans and Black Americans.

teachrdan 6y ago

This is from the Military Times this year: "More than one-third of all active-duty troops and more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism within the ranks in recent months, according to the latest survey of active-duty Military Times readers." From the article, "Signs of white supremacy, extremism up again in poll of active-duty troops" https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02/06/signs-of-white-supremacy-extremism-up-again-in-poll-of-active-duty-troops/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02...

koheripbal 6y ago
> The vast majority... are not racist... ...and... > more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism... These do not contradict. It only takes one person in one hundred to expose half the group to their racist ideas. It's also not surprising that the most racist people are also the loudest.
- teachrdan 6y ago
  The narrative in this thread is that, not only will serving in the military make you un-racist, but that those who continue to be racist will be expelled. The fact that most respondents who are people of color have personally witnessed racism in recent months indicates otherwise. The burden of proof is on you to show that it's only "one person in a hundred" who exposes people to their racist ideas--and to explain why they are permitted to stay in the military if they "are also the loudest."
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    This is an impossible bar you're setting. People of color face racism in society in general. Where is your evidence that the military is so much worse that reforming a skinhead would be impossible? Maybe you should stop looking for narratives, and start looking for truth.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

This is a good starting point outlining some of the major incidents https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationalists-extremists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationa... I don't expect the commanders still preach a racist creed like they did for the first ~150 years, but they still tend to just ignore soldier's ties to white supremacy. For example, the USMC finally outlawed the public display of the Confederate flag this month. And white supremacy groups have long viewed the armed forces as a useful training ground.

koheripbal 6y ago
Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? 30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? It's hard to believe he was able to "get away from this world" in the Navy, an institution where that world very much still existed. It may have happened, but it also sounds like using your time in the military to shield you from criticism. >30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed I was providing sources showing links with white supremacy, not racist events.