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It's easy to make that assumption if you haven't lived in those worlds yourself and only consume social media to give you an impression of what those communitie

It's easy to make that assumption if you haven't lived in those worlds yourself and only consume social media to give you an impression of what those communities are like. You might be surprised, but the vast majority of law enforcement officers and soldiers are not, at all, racist.

boomboomsubban 7y ago
>You might be surprised, but the vast majority of law enforcement officers and soldiers are not, at all, racist. Both have substantial ties to white nationalism, and neither have a reputation for helping people move past such racist views. Everyone involved doesn't need to be racist, somebody that already has connections to the KKK would find plenty of like minds.
- dx87 7y ago
  Have you ever been in the military? From my time in the USMC, it was a meritocratic institution where your race was irrelevant, and overt racists wouldn't last long. Do you have any sources to back up the "strong ties to white nationalism" and plenty of likeminded KKK type racists?
  - pnw_hazor 7y ago
    In the Army, it seems racists were sniffed out early as possible. I was a trainee leader (Asst Platoon Guide whatever that means). One of the "perks" of my leadership role was bunking with two racist assholes (one black one white) who naturally hated each other. As soon as the drill instructors noticed the behavior of those two, all three of us were moved into a room. To keep an eye on them? Punish me? Who knows what the Army logic was. Anyway, they both were chaptered out before completing training (AIT). I am sure there a few racists but they must keep it on the downlow. The biggest problem I saw later was between Cuban Americans and Black Americans.
  - teachrdan 7y ago
    This is from the Military Times this year: "More than one-third of all active-duty troops and more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism within the ranks in recent months, according to the latest survey of active-duty Military Times readers." From the article, "Signs of white supremacy, extremism up again in poll of active-duty troops" https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02/06/signs-of-white-supremacy-extremism-up-again-in-poll-of-active-duty-troops/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02...
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      > The vast majority... are not racist... ...and... > more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism... These do not contradict. It only takes one person in one hundred to expose half the group to their racist ideas. It's also not surprising that the most racist people are also the loudest.
      - teachrdan 7y ago
        The narrative in this thread is that, not only will serving in the military make you un-racist, but that those who continue to be racist will be expelled. The fact that most respondents who are people of color have personally witnessed racism in recent months indicates otherwise. The burden of proof is on you to show that it's only "one person in a hundred" who exposes people to their racist ideas--and to explain why they are permitted to stay in the military if they "are also the loudest."
        koheripbal 7y ago
        This is an impossible bar you're setting. People of color face racism in society in general. Where is your evidence that the military is so much worse that reforming a skinhead would be impossible? Maybe you should stop looking for narratives, and start looking for truth.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    This is a good starting point outlining some of the major incidents https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationalists-extremists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationa... I don't expect the commanders still preach a racist creed like they did for the first ~150 years, but they still tend to just ignore soldier's ties to white supremacy. For example, the USMC finally outlawed the public display of the Confederate flag this month. And white supremacy groups have long viewed the armed forces as a useful training ground.
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? 30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed.
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        >Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? It's hard to believe he was able to "get away from this world" in the Navy, an institution where that world very much still existed. It may have happened, but it also sounds like using your time in the military to shield you from criticism. >30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed I was providing sources showing links with white supremacy, not racist events.
- illumin8 7y ago
  From the article: > On the evening of June 9, 1990 — a month before Patton turned 18 — Patton and a Klan leader took a semi-automatic TEC-9 pistol and drove to a synagogue in a Nashville suburb. With Patton at the wheel, the Ku Klux Klan member fired onto the synagogue, destroying a street-facing window and spraying bullets and shattered glass near the building’s administrative offices, which were next to that of the congregation’s rabbi. No one was struck or killed in the shooting. Afterward, Patton hid on the grounds of a white supremacist paramilitary training camp under construction before fleeing the state with the help of a second Klan member. Now, imagine that this same story had happened, but the young man 1 month from his 18th birthday was black. He would have been tried as an adult and put in jail for a long time. The justice system has a long and storied history of going easy on white supremacist hate crimes.
  - itronitron 7y ago
    Reminds me of this article from ten years ago >> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolasmedinamora/did-the-fbi-transform-this-teenager-into-a-terrorist https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolasmedinamora/did-t...
  - CryptoPunk 7y ago
    >>He would have been tried as an adult and put in jail for a long time. Do you have evidence for this allegation of systemic racism?
    - ShamelessC 7y ago
      While I'm having trouble picking any sides on this topic, surely you're being sarcastic about this, right?
      - CryptoPunk 7y ago
        That's an odd reaction for someone not picking a side. If there is evidence of systemic racism in the criminal justice system, that needs to be brought to light, and fixing the problem needs to be made the highest political priority. I believe there is absolutely no evidence of this at all.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Police and soldiers more commonly in my observation develop a type of cynicism or nihilism.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    This person had these views before they entered, and that isn't uncommon.

boomboomsubban 7y ago

>You might be surprised, but the vast majority of law enforcement officers and soldiers are not, at all, racist. Both have substantial ties to white nationalism, and neither have a reputation for helping people move past such racist views. Everyone involved doesn't need to be racist, somebody that already has connections to the KKK would find plenty of like minds.

dx87 7y ago
Have you ever been in the military? From my time in the USMC, it was a meritocratic institution where your race was irrelevant, and overt racists wouldn't last long. Do you have any sources to back up the "strong ties to white nationalism" and plenty of likeminded KKK type racists?
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  In the Army, it seems racists were sniffed out early as possible. I was a trainee leader (Asst Platoon Guide whatever that means). One of the "perks" of my leadership role was bunking with two racist assholes (one black one white) who naturally hated each other. As soon as the drill instructors noticed the behavior of those two, all three of us were moved into a room. To keep an eye on them? Punish me? Who knows what the Army logic was. Anyway, they both were chaptered out before completing training (AIT). I am sure there a few racists but they must keep it on the downlow. The biggest problem I saw later was between Cuban Americans and Black Americans.
- teachrdan 7y ago
  This is from the Military Times this year: "More than one-third of all active-duty troops and more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism within the ranks in recent months, according to the latest survey of active-duty Military Times readers." From the article, "Signs of white supremacy, extremism up again in poll of active-duty troops" https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02/06/signs-of-white-supremacy-extremism-up-again-in-poll-of-active-duty-troops/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02...
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    > The vast majority... are not racist... ...and... > more than half of minority service members say they have personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or ideological-driven racism... These do not contradict. It only takes one person in one hundred to expose half the group to their racist ideas. It's also not surprising that the most racist people are also the loudest.
    - teachrdan 7y ago
      The narrative in this thread is that, not only will serving in the military make you un-racist, but that those who continue to be racist will be expelled. The fact that most respondents who are people of color have personally witnessed racism in recent months indicates otherwise. The burden of proof is on you to show that it's only "one person in a hundred" who exposes people to their racist ideas--and to explain why they are permitted to stay in the military if they "are also the loudest."
      - koheripbal 7y ago
        This is an impossible bar you're setting. People of color face racism in society in general. Where is your evidence that the military is so much worse that reforming a skinhead would be impossible? Maybe you should stop looking for narratives, and start looking for truth.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  This is a good starting point outlining some of the major incidents https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationalists-extremists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/military-white-nationa... I don't expect the commanders still preach a racist creed like they did for the first ~150 years, but they still tend to just ignore soldier's ties to white supremacy. For example, the USMC finally outlawed the public display of the Confederate flag this month. And white supremacy groups have long viewed the armed forces as a useful training ground.
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? 30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      >Is any of this worse than the rate of racism in society in general? How does this make it impossible that he reformed in the Navy? It's hard to believe he was able to "get away from this world" in the Navy, an institution where that world very much still existed. It may have happened, but it also sounds like using your time in the military to shield you from criticism. >30% of women and 17% of men in the US military are black. If there was rampant racism, I think we'd see a lot more trouble than the sources you've listed I was providing sources showing links with white supremacy, not racist events.
illumin8 7y ago
From the article: > On the evening of June 9, 1990 — a month before Patton turned 18 — Patton and a Klan leader took a semi-automatic TEC-9 pistol and drove to a synagogue in a Nashville suburb. With Patton at the wheel, the Ku Klux Klan member fired onto the synagogue, destroying a street-facing window and spraying bullets and shattered glass near the building’s administrative offices, which were next to that of the congregation’s rabbi. No one was struck or killed in the shooting. Afterward, Patton hid on the grounds of a white supremacist paramilitary training camp under construction before fleeing the state with the help of a second Klan member. Now, imagine that this same story had happened, but the young man 1 month from his 18th birthday was black. He would have been tried as an adult and put in jail for a long time. The justice system has a long and storied history of going easy on white supremacist hate crimes.
- itronitron 7y ago
  Reminds me of this article from ten years ago >> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolasmedinamora/did-the-fbi-transform-this-teenager-into-a-terrorist https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolasmedinamora/did-t...
- CryptoPunk 7y ago
  >>He would have been tried as an adult and put in jail for a long time. Do you have evidence for this allegation of systemic racism?
  - ShamelessC 7y ago
    While I'm having trouble picking any sides on this topic, surely you're being sarcastic about this, right?
    - CryptoPunk 7y ago
      That's an odd reaction for someone not picking a side. If there is evidence of systemic racism in the criminal justice system, that needs to be brought to light, and fixing the problem needs to be made the highest political priority. I believe there is absolutely no evidence of this at all.
Spooky23 7y ago
Police and soldiers more commonly in my observation develop a type of cynicism or nihilism.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  This person had these views before they entered, and that isn't uncommon.