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> I would suspect a route which props up peace at the Middle East would have no trouble finding secret government subsidiaries... I am not so sure about that.

> I would suspect a route which props up peace at the Middle East would have no trouble finding secret government subsidiaries... I am not so sure about that. If all (or at least most) sides wanted peace, we already would have. The problem is: all sides only want peace on their terms and there do not seem to exist "common peace conditions" which all (or at least most) involved countries and organizations are okay with.

toyg 6y ago
You are making a general point, but this is an actual issue in a treaty two countries already signed and that both sides (by which I mean Egyptian and Israeli governments, nobody else) want to stay valid. Chances are that there are dedicated budget items somewhere in the bowels of both governments, far from prying eyes.
- chx 6y ago
  > by which I mean Egyptian and Israeli governments, nobody else Oh there a LOT of other players, most importantly the USA here. If you want to paint a 10000 ft picture of the last few decades, it's the USA stuffing the Israel with enough money so the real crazies can't raise to power. Unleashing the full military might of Israel in a traditional war again would be absolutely horrible: they have armed unmanned ground vehicles, main battle tanks which can intercept even the most advanced MANPADS and more.
  - toyg 6y ago
    > if you want to paint a 10000 ft picture No I don’t. This has nothing to do with the technicalities of running Air Sinai.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's the US policy for Egypt and Jordan, US aid to Israel is about 2% of its GDP and comes with a lot of strings attached, Egypt gets pretty much the same deal. Jordan relies heavily on US support for stability. Israel's public has a very strong aversion to casualties, much more so than when the state's survival was at risk. The Israeli public couldn't tolerate the 120 soldiers killed in the 2nd Lebanon war there is absolutely nothing to back that there is any political will in the general public or the politicians to pursue an actual traditional war not to mention that there is no one to wage war against. Waging war against Egypt would serve no strategic purposes Israel is rather happy selling them gas. Waging war against Jordan would be taking over 8 or so million Palestinians which again for what purpose? Lebanon it's in Israel best interests for Lebanon to sort it's shit out internally the last time it formed an alliance with the Free Lebanon Government during the Israeli-Maronite alliance it didn't end up well. Lebanon is slowly but surely heading into another civil war and Israel would likely stay the fuck out of it unless Hezbollah would drag it in. Syria is a failed state there is absolutely nothing for Israel to gain by going beyond the Golan Heights that provide a good natural defensive barrier and Israel has absolutely nothing to gain by potentially dragging Russia into the conflict since Syria is their only open warm water port. Yes Israel has a very capable army, it likely cannot be matched in a true traditional war in the region but it has nothing to gain from waging one. Israel always had goals in each conflict and war it engaged in (regardless if you agree with their goals or not) and unless there will be a drastic geopolitical shift in Egypt, Jordan, Syria or Lebanon there would be no reason to wage an all out war against any of them. P.S. MANPADS stands for man portable air defense systems these aren't anti tank weapons. While Israel has deployed active defense systems for ground vehicles these surely won't be used against MANPADS.
    - chx 6y ago
      > The Israeli public couldn't tolerate the 120 soldiers killed in the 2nd Lebanon war as if a (un)healthy dose of good ole' propaganda couldn't fix that
      - dogma1138 6y ago
        I don’t know what you’ve been smoking but the bulk of the Israeli army relies on reservists they literally cannot go to war without it having a major economic impact. Also the benefit of having a mandatory conscription is that nearly every household would be affected all of a sudden propaganda doesn’t work anymore.
LorenPechtel 6y ago
It's not about wanting peace, it's about optics. The Arab world needs it's EastAsia.

toyg 6y ago

You are making a general point, but this is an actual issue in a treaty two countries already signed and that both sides (by which I mean Egyptian and Israeli governments, nobody else) want to stay valid. Chances are that there are dedicated budget items somewhere in the bowels of both governments, far from prying eyes.

chx 6y ago
> by which I mean Egyptian and Israeli governments, nobody else Oh there a LOT of other players, most importantly the USA here. If you want to paint a 10000 ft picture of the last few decades, it's the USA stuffing the Israel with enough money so the real crazies can't raise to power. Unleashing the full military might of Israel in a traditional war again would be absolutely horrible: they have armed unmanned ground vehicles, main battle tanks which can intercept even the most advanced MANPADS and more.
- toyg 6y ago
  > if you want to paint a 10000 ft picture No I don’t. This has nothing to do with the technicalities of running Air Sinai.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure that's the US policy for Egypt and Jordan, US aid to Israel is about 2% of its GDP and comes with a lot of strings attached, Egypt gets pretty much the same deal. Jordan relies heavily on US support for stability. Israel's public has a very strong aversion to casualties, much more so than when the state's survival was at risk. The Israeli public couldn't tolerate the 120 soldiers killed in the 2nd Lebanon war there is absolutely nothing to back that there is any political will in the general public or the politicians to pursue an actual traditional war not to mention that there is no one to wage war against. Waging war against Egypt would serve no strategic purposes Israel is rather happy selling them gas. Waging war against Jordan would be taking over 8 or so million Palestinians which again for what purpose? Lebanon it's in Israel best interests for Lebanon to sort it's shit out internally the last time it formed an alliance with the Free Lebanon Government during the Israeli-Maronite alliance it didn't end up well. Lebanon is slowly but surely heading into another civil war and Israel would likely stay the fuck out of it unless Hezbollah would drag it in. Syria is a failed state there is absolutely nothing for Israel to gain by going beyond the Golan Heights that provide a good natural defensive barrier and Israel has absolutely nothing to gain by potentially dragging Russia into the conflict since Syria is their only open warm water port. Yes Israel has a very capable army, it likely cannot be matched in a true traditional war in the region but it has nothing to gain from waging one. Israel always had goals in each conflict and war it engaged in (regardless if you agree with their goals or not) and unless there will be a drastic geopolitical shift in Egypt, Jordan, Syria or Lebanon there would be no reason to wage an all out war against any of them. P.S. MANPADS stands for man portable air defense systems these aren't anti tank weapons. While Israel has deployed active defense systems for ground vehicles these surely won't be used against MANPADS.
  - chx 6y ago
    > The Israeli public couldn't tolerate the 120 soldiers killed in the 2nd Lebanon war as if a (un)healthy dose of good ole' propaganda couldn't fix that
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      I don’t know what you’ve been smoking but the bulk of the Israeli army relies on reservists they literally cannot go to war without it having a major economic impact. Also the benefit of having a mandatory conscription is that nearly every household would be affected all of a sudden propaganda doesn’t work anymore.

LorenPechtel 6y ago

It's not about wanting peace, it's about optics. The Arab world needs it's EastAsia.