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High schooler here. On-line school is far from perfect. There are two approaches I've seen: 1. The "self-taught" style. This one is being done by my linear

High schooler here. On-line school is far from perfect. There are two approaches I've seen: 1. The "self-taught" style. This one is being done by my linear algebra class: the prof tells us which chapters to read, sends out notes, and some recommended problems. Periodically, he sends out a take-home test; we work it and send him the answers. This style is helped by the fact that our book is short and concise enough to teach but still be readable. No one wants to read if a chapter takes hours. This approach works great for me, but it requires a more self-directed student to function. 2. The "micro-manager" style. This one is being done by my physics class: the prof uses online, checked homework, multiple zoom calls, requires us to record videos of ourselves solving problems in a "tutorial style", gives on-line quizzes, and attempts to give the same tests on-line as were given in-person. This results in horrible, invasive solutions that give a "proctor" remote access to one's computer, require one to use a webcam to be monitored, and require one to show the space around him using a mirror. This style is awful, wastes colossal amounts of time, but is the option on which teachers fall back when they lack confidence in their students to be self-directed. Most teachers are going for option 2, which is worse than in-person learning. This may sound cynical, but mot of the tools for "active learning" or "on-line engagement" make students' lives harder, waste their time, and offer no benefit beyond an administrator feeling as though he's "done something". Edit: can any current student tell me if y'all are getting refunded for room and board, at least partially? Y'all paid for something and are being prohibited from using it, so that seems reasonable.

bachmeier 7y ago
> can any current student tell me if y'all are getting refunded for room and board, at least partially To my knowledge, all colleges/universities are refunding room and board for the times campus is closed. Legally I don't think there's an option. Online teaching is difficult. It's not a good substitute for all parts of the in-person experience.
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downerending 7y ago
Wow--that "micro-manager" style sounds awful. I'd probably just drop out and self-learn until "real" college restarts.
credit_guy 7y ago
There's a third method, roughly in the middle of your 1 and 2. My wife practices this (she teaches Math at college level): keep the lectures at the times they are regularly scheduled, but on Zoom. Use an iPad-based whiteboard (Notability) and share the screen. Allow questions, give answers. Pretty much the regular class time, only online. Quizes happen at the scheduled times. Students receive the test pages via email, and they have to print them out and send photos of their worked solutions by a certain time limit (roughly the same as the one for a normal exam, plus a few more minutes to allow for printing, etc). She simply decided to trust her students. So far she has zero reasons to believe any of them cheated; in particular one submitted an empty exam. No students have dropped the class, and the attendance is better than the one prior to the lockdown.
vharuck 7y ago
>require one to show the space around him using a mirror. I'm hard-pressed to think of many subjects where an "open book" test isn't a better option, even for in-person classes. If a cheat sheet can help during a test, then it's asking predictable questions and measuring regurgitation. My wife pointed out language tests to see if students can use the skills on the fly, but I can't think of another good case. This should be a time for schools to find which teachers are just going for easy-to-write instead of useful tests.
- collegeburner 7y ago
  My linear teacher did a good job of this, because you're right that regurgitation isn't useful. He does open-book tests that are focused on doing proofs and conceptual questions that depend on using properties of stuff rather than just juggling numbers. Good CS teachers have done the same; rather than demanding students memorize a half-dozen sorting algorithms, they ask students to use an appropriate sort in a project. In History, students can write papers and give perspectives rather than regurgitating dates. In Econ, students can do modeling projects rather than spouting formulae and facts about AS-AD models. The caveat to all of these is that they take more work for teachers, so many prefer not to use them.
Balgair 7y ago
Per issues with #2, they are assuming that the webcams of students are unmodified. Yellow highlighters' coloring is called 'Solvent Green 7' and has a peak at about 494nm. You can buy filters for lenses that will knock out certain bandwidths of light and keep the rest coming into the camera. These are called notch filters, as they take a notch out of the light. There just so happens to be a notch filter that should know out the yellow highlighter color. Meaning that the light reflected from a yellow highlighter will not enter into the camera. https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=NF488-15 https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=NF488-15 They are not cheap though, and as such, I've not tried this at home to see how well it works. Other solutions may exist at to the ideas that these people may have about how your webcam is working. I'd experiment with other lenses, polarized filters, exposure times, etc. That said, studying is a lot easier than trying to jerry-rig your webcams.
- pinusc 7y ago
  Although those physical approaches are fascinating, I think there must be an easier software solution. How hard can it be to live edit the webcam recording so that half of the frame is a static picture? Then you just have notes flat on your desk... And the webcam will show it empty. Alternatively, one could run a VM with the monitoring software, and have a separate window with notes. As long as the mirror is angled so to hide a small portion of the screen that should be good enough. To build on your physical solution using polarization: that's easier. You can apply a polarized filter to the webcam (you can get one from an old pair of 3d glasses) and then have the notes on a secondary screen that will then look completely dark on webcam. Maybe lay the device on a black background so it's not obvious that there's a "turned off" device and you're done. This is all a fun thought experiment. I don't have invasive professors, thankfully. They simply made all tests open book and raised the difficulty of the questions accordingly. That being said, I enjoy trying to work arounf hypothetical limitations...
  - throwawayoverhe 7y ago
    But this is on a thread about high school. You're way over thinking it. Just ratchet down the bandwidth available to the relevant machine (or straight up disable the video feed). Easy peasy. What's the teacher going to do, fail you for not being rich enough to afford a good internet connection? They aren't paid well enough to take that risk.
aiddun 7y ago
College student here, got room and board refunded
ralphc 7y ago
You can see some online learning drama unfold here. Student has to go back home to bad home situation, bombs online test, complains about prof, to the point where prof gets on to defend themselves. https://www.reddit.com/r/gatech/comments/g5vzfc/stasko_doesnt_care_what_actions_can_i_take/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gatech/comments/g5vzfc/stasko_doesn...

bachmeier 7y ago

> can any current student tell me if y'all are getting refunded for room and board, at least partially To my knowledge, all colleges/universities are refunding room and board for the times campus is closed. Legally I don't think there's an option. Online teaching is difficult. It's not a good substitute for all parts of the in-person experience.

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downerending 7y ago

Wow--that "micro-manager" style sounds awful. I'd probably just drop out and self-learn until "real" college restarts.

credit_guy 7y ago

There's a third method, roughly in the middle of your 1 and 2. My wife practices this (she teaches Math at college level): keep the lectures at the times they are regularly scheduled, but on Zoom. Use an iPad-based whiteboard (Notability) and share the screen. Allow questions, give answers. Pretty much the regular class time, only online. Quizes happen at the scheduled times. Students receive the test pages via email, and they have to print them out and send photos of their worked solutions by a certain time limit (roughly the same as the one for a normal exam, plus a few more minutes to allow for printing, etc). She simply decided to trust her students. So far she has zero reasons to believe any of them cheated; in particular one submitted an empty exam. No students have dropped the class, and the attendance is better than the one prior to the lockdown.

vharuck 7y ago

>require one to show the space around him using a mirror. I'm hard-pressed to think of many subjects where an "open book" test isn't a better option, even for in-person classes. If a cheat sheet can help during a test, then it's asking predictable questions and measuring regurgitation. My wife pointed out language tests to see if students can use the skills on the fly, but I can't think of another good case. This should be a time for schools to find which teachers are just going for easy-to-write instead of useful tests.

collegeburner 7y ago
My linear teacher did a good job of this, because you're right that regurgitation isn't useful. He does open-book tests that are focused on doing proofs and conceptual questions that depend on using properties of stuff rather than just juggling numbers. Good CS teachers have done the same; rather than demanding students memorize a half-dozen sorting algorithms, they ask students to use an appropriate sort in a project. In History, students can write papers and give perspectives rather than regurgitating dates. In Econ, students can do modeling projects rather than spouting formulae and facts about AS-AD models. The caveat to all of these is that they take more work for teachers, so many prefer not to use them.

Balgair 7y ago

Per issues with #2, they are assuming that the webcams of students are unmodified. Yellow highlighters' coloring is called 'Solvent Green 7' and has a peak at about 494nm. You can buy filters for lenses that will knock out certain bandwidths of light and keep the rest coming into the camera. These are called notch filters, as they take a notch out of the light. There just so happens to be a notch filter that should know out the yellow highlighter color. Meaning that the light reflected from a yellow highlighter will not enter into the camera. https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=NF488-15 https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=NF488-15 They are not cheap though, and as such, I've not tried this at home to see how well it works. Other solutions may exist at to the ideas that these people may have about how your webcam is working. I'd experiment with other lenses, polarized filters, exposure times, etc. That said, studying is a lot easier than trying to jerry-rig your webcams.

pinusc 7y ago
Although those physical approaches are fascinating, I think there must be an easier software solution. How hard can it be to live edit the webcam recording so that half of the frame is a static picture? Then you just have notes flat on your desk... And the webcam will show it empty. Alternatively, one could run a VM with the monitoring software, and have a separate window with notes. As long as the mirror is angled so to hide a small portion of the screen that should be good enough. To build on your physical solution using polarization: that's easier. You can apply a polarized filter to the webcam (you can get one from an old pair of 3d glasses) and then have the notes on a secondary screen that will then look completely dark on webcam. Maybe lay the device on a black background so it's not obvious that there's a "turned off" device and you're done. This is all a fun thought experiment. I don't have invasive professors, thankfully. They simply made all tests open book and raised the difficulty of the questions accordingly. That being said, I enjoy trying to work arounf hypothetical limitations...
- throwawayoverhe 7y ago
  But this is on a thread about high school. You're way over thinking it. Just ratchet down the bandwidth available to the relevant machine (or straight up disable the video feed). Easy peasy. What's the teacher going to do, fail you for not being rich enough to afford a good internet connection? They aren't paid well enough to take that risk.

aiddun 7y ago

College student here, got room and board refunded

ralphc 7y ago

You can see some online learning drama unfold here. Student has to go back home to bad home situation, bombs online test, complains about prof, to the point where prof gets on to defend themselves. https://www.reddit.com/r/gatech/comments/g5vzfc/stasko_doesnt_care_what_actions_can_i_take/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gatech/comments/g5vzfc/stasko_doesn...