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Why is it tiresome for people to experiment with substance abstinence? How is that affecting you?

keiferski 6y ago
Well, to be clear, I was reacting to the specific statement that people only drink three coffees because they have some problem in their life. If you want to cut down on your coffee use, have at it, but do so without casting aspersion onto those who think otherwise. Otherwise, to me it’s tiresome when any sort of substance is critiqued because it doesn’t fit the standard sober societal narrative, especially because it’s assumed that people are incapable of making decisions for themselves. It is a sort of creeping, subtle Puritanism and is usually totally arbitrary; you’ll see the same people gleefully talk about marijuana yet call tobacco users dumb. These things have costs and benefits and a mature society should be able to rationally discuss them, rather than act like a heavy-handed nanny. As an American living in Europe, this seems to be less of a problem in somewhere like France or Italy that has a tradition of wine cultivation. America seems to always skew to the extremes of over-indulgence or prohibition. I simply don’t agree with the idea that everything with a supposedly negative health effect is necessarily a bad thing. Intoxication and substance use has played an important role in art and culture for thousands of years. To casually dismiss it just seems really short-sighted. I could write more about this but these are my summarized thoughts.
- bluntfang 6y ago
  >America seems to always skew to the extremes of over-indulgence or prohibition. I completely disagree. You must live in a different bubble than I do and most of HN. Most of the people here support the idea of experimentation with LSD or other psychedelics. >I simply don’t agree with the idea that everything with a supposedly negative health effect is necessarily a bad thing. Intoxication and substance use has played an important role in art and culture for thousands of years. To casually dismiss it just seems really short-sighted. To casually support the idea that substance abuse hasn't harmed society seems pretty short sighted as well. Alcohol being a big one, it has such a negative societal impact, yet we are scared to broach the idea in a public forum.
  - keiferski 6y ago
    Well I meant more America in general, not so much HN. I doubt the average person, even in somewhere like Northern California, is really encouraging of psychedelics. And sure of course alcohol and other substance abuse has harmed society and continues to. I’m merely suggesting that moderation is a better solution than prohibition.
    - sofal 6y ago
      I would go further and even say that on HN you see these extremes. People that previously consumed massive, unhealthy amounts of coffee now authoring testimonials and blog posts about how life is better without coffee. People that previously could not go 5 minutes without checking news headlines and Twitter hot takes now authoring testimonials and blog posts about how life is so much better when lived in total ignorance of current events. Lukewarm takes about moderation aren't inspiring and dynamic enough to generate views, upvotes, and discussion. We're always looking for that neat life hack, and "don't do quite as much of X and maybe do a little more of Y" is not very neat.
      - keiferski 6y ago
        I can't disagree with that. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Well, to be clear, I was reacting to the specific statement that people only drink three coffees because they have some problem in their life. If you want to cut down on your coffee use, have at it, but do so without casting aspersion onto those who think otherwise. Otherwise, to me it’s tiresome when any sort of substance is critiqued because it doesn’t fit the standard sober societal narrative, especially because it’s assumed that people are incapable of making decisions for themselves. It is a sort of creeping, subtle Puritanism and is usually totally arbitrary; you’ll see the same people gleefully talk about marijuana yet call tobacco users dumb. These things have costs and benefits and a mature society should be able to rationally discuss them, rather than act like a heavy-handed nanny. As an American living in Europe, this seems to be less of a problem in somewhere like France or Italy that has a tradition of wine cultivation. America seems to always skew to the extremes of over-indulgence or prohibition. I simply don’t agree with the idea that everything with a supposedly negative health effect is necessarily a bad thing. Intoxication and substance use has played an important role in art and culture for thousands of years. To casually dismiss it just seems really short-sighted. I could write more about this but these are my summarized thoughts.

bluntfang 6y ago
>America seems to always skew to the extremes of over-indulgence or prohibition. I completely disagree. You must live in a different bubble than I do and most of HN. Most of the people here support the idea of experimentation with LSD or other psychedelics. >I simply don’t agree with the idea that everything with a supposedly negative health effect is necessarily a bad thing. Intoxication and substance use has played an important role in art and culture for thousands of years. To casually dismiss it just seems really short-sighted. To casually support the idea that substance abuse hasn't harmed society seems pretty short sighted as well. Alcohol being a big one, it has such a negative societal impact, yet we are scared to broach the idea in a public forum.
- keiferski 6y ago
  Well I meant more America in general, not so much HN. I doubt the average person, even in somewhere like Northern California, is really encouraging of psychedelics. And sure of course alcohol and other substance abuse has harmed society and continues to. I’m merely suggesting that moderation is a better solution than prohibition.
  - sofal 6y ago
    I would go further and even say that on HN you see these extremes. People that previously consumed massive, unhealthy amounts of coffee now authoring testimonials and blog posts about how life is better without coffee. People that previously could not go 5 minutes without checking news headlines and Twitter hot takes now authoring testimonials and blog posts about how life is so much better when lived in total ignorance of current events. Lukewarm takes about moderation aren't inspiring and dynamic enough to generate views, upvotes, and discussion. We're always looking for that neat life hack, and "don't do quite as much of X and maybe do a little more of Y" is not very neat.
    - keiferski 6y ago
      I can't disagree with that. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.