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> Further, there's a great amount of scrutiny into whether anyone's sick (see the reports of doctors getting beaten up even by the cops). What? Why are doctors

by gspr 7y ago

> Further, there's a great amount of scrutiny into whether anyone's sick (see the reports of doctors getting beaten up even by the cops). What? Why are doctors being beaten up? I don't understand.

pgo 7y ago
Few isolated incidents mostly in slum areas where rumors spread of a government conspiracy of targeting muslims. This government's anti-minority image did not help. Source: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/assam-mla-held-for-spreading-false-covid-19-info-police/story-chZkNRC5WHm6GF5eM1fkoM.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/assam-mla-held-for...
mirimir 7y ago
Doctors have a bad reputation in Pakistan, given one's role in OBL's murder. And perhaps, more generally, among some Muslim populations. I'm not arguing that it's justified, by the way. Or that it's a majority opinion. Just that it exists.
- JPKab 7y ago
  OBL was "murdered"? Is that your view?
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Forget that part, since when do doctors get abused in Pakistan (except in the brawl by lawyers recently)? What’s a basis for this speculation?
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Huh. I thought that this was common knowledge. > The Taliban began assassinating polio workers the year after the CIA used a vaccination campaign for hepatitis B, not polio, to identify Osama bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150303-polio-pakistan-islamic-state-refugees-vaccination-health/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150303-polio... > There has been opposition to such immunisation drives from some powerful clerics while a fake CIA vaccination campaign, which helped to locate Osama Bin Laden in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad, is thought to have had a detrimental effect as well. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18868267 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18868267
      - selimthegrim 7y ago
        Yeah but it's quite a leap from polio vaccinators getting waxed and Shakil Afridi being jailed to "Doctors have a bad reputation in Pakistan" and then imply it's because it's a Muslim country. Many (even conservative) parents send their daughters to publicly financed medical colleges often to increase their marriage prospects. Does that sound like a thing they would do if doctors had a bad rap? Doctors came out and criticized the clerics for lack of adherence to social distancing, I didn't see anyone call them un-Islamic for standing their ground.
        mirimir 7y ago
        Maybe so. But I never claimed that it was mainstream in Pakistan. Just that it might account for this in ramraj07's comment:[0] > Further, there's a great amount of scrutiny into whether anyone's sick (see the reports of doctors getting beaten up even by the cops). Perhaps they could share a link about that. 0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23005076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23005076
  - dang 7y ago
    "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Sorry. I should have put that in scare quotes. And to be clear, I'm not arguing that he was murdered. I was just pointing out that some Muslims consider that he was murdered. I mean, the doctor who led the CIA to him is still in jail, and likely will be for the rest of his life. And the lawyer who defended him was murdered by the Taliban.
signal11 7y ago
It's very stupid, but a (very) few people see them as potential spreaders of the disease. Public health workers going into the community to find infected people have also been attacked. Also, until recently, suspected COVID patients had to be in hospital -- no home isolation allowed -- and some of these patients (or their relatives) thought that venting their anger on doctors would help. Unfortunately, the law of large numbers in India means that a "very few" can mean tens of thousands of people. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52151141 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52151141 [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-13/doctors-come-under-attack-in-india-as-coronavirus-stigma-grows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-13/doctors-c...
- barkingcat 7y ago
  In North American long term care facilities, this is exactly what's happening. In Canada, a ban was put in place to prevent health workers from working in multiple long term care facilities - it was found that infectious material was making its way via health workers from one home to another, all full of high risk populations. Add in the fact that many hospitals in North America are short on PPE, and some are even preventing nurses and care personnelle from wearing PPE (or to bring their own, etc) - and you can see how much of an issue this can be. Of course, beating up the doctors is a bad idea, but the roots of the idea that health workers are potential spreaders isn't all that far fetched.
- clort 7y ago
  > a (very) few people see them as potential spreaders One problem is that although only a very few will see it this way, other people would be cautious about being caught up in it. This could affect the way they behave because if they think that somebody died in their house from this disease then they won't want to advertise that at all (eg by blowing horns) in case they were subsequently targeted. The fear is likely worse than the reality but behavior like this is driven more by fear. However I can understand that ramraj07 says it seems unlikely on their street as it would surely be difficult in a close community to hide a van coming to take Auntie-ji away.
quantummkv 7y ago
> What? Why are doctors being beaten up? I don't understand. The anti-vax crowd in India tends to be on the violent side of things.

by gspr 7y ago

> Further, there's a great amount of scrutiny into whether anyone's sick (see the reports of doctors getting beaten up even by the cops). What? Why are doctors being beaten up? I don't understand.

pgo 7y ago

Few isolated incidents mostly in slum areas where rumors spread of a government conspiracy of targeting muslims. This government's anti-minority image did not help. Source: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/assam-mla-held-for-spreading-false-covid-19-info-police/story-chZkNRC5WHm6GF5eM1fkoM.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/assam-mla-held-for...

mirimir 7y ago

Doctors have a bad reputation in Pakistan, given one's role in OBL's murder. And perhaps, more generally, among some Muslim populations. I'm not arguing that it's justified, by the way. Or that it's a majority opinion. Just that it exists.

JPKab 7y ago
OBL was "murdered"? Is that your view?
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Forget that part, since when do doctors get abused in Pakistan (except in the brawl by lawyers recently)? What’s a basis for this speculation?
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Huh. I thought that this was common knowledge. > The Taliban began assassinating polio workers the year after the CIA used a vaccination campaign for hepatitis B, not polio, to identify Osama bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150303-polio-pakistan-islamic-state-refugees-vaccination-health/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150303-polio... > There has been opposition to such immunisation drives from some powerful clerics while a fake CIA vaccination campaign, which helped to locate Osama Bin Laden in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad, is thought to have had a detrimental effect as well. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18868267 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18868267
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      Yeah but it's quite a leap from polio vaccinators getting waxed and Shakil Afridi being jailed to "Doctors have a bad reputation in Pakistan" and then imply it's because it's a Muslim country. Many (even conservative) parents send their daughters to publicly financed medical colleges often to increase their marriage prospects. Does that sound like a thing they would do if doctors had a bad rap? Doctors came out and criticized the clerics for lack of adherence to social distancing, I didn't see anyone call them un-Islamic for standing their ground.
      - mirimir 7y ago
        Maybe so. But I never claimed that it was mainstream in Pakistan. Just that it might account for this in ramraj07's comment:[0] > Further, there's a great amount of scrutiny into whether anyone's sick (see the reports of doctors getting beaten up even by the cops). Perhaps they could share a link about that. 0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23005076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23005076
- dang 7y ago
  "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- mirimir 7y ago
  Sorry. I should have put that in scare quotes. And to be clear, I'm not arguing that he was murdered. I was just pointing out that some Muslims consider that he was murdered. I mean, the doctor who led the CIA to him is still in jail, and likely will be for the rest of his life. And the lawyer who defended him was murdered by the Taliban.

signal11 7y ago

It's very stupid, but a (very) few people see them as potential spreaders of the disease. Public health workers going into the community to find infected people have also been attacked. Also, until recently, suspected COVID patients had to be in hospital -- no home isolation allowed -- and some of these patients (or their relatives) thought that venting their anger on doctors would help. Unfortunately, the law of large numbers in India means that a "very few" can mean tens of thousands of people. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52151141 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52151141 [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-13/doctors-come-under-attack-in-india-as-coronavirus-stigma-grows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-13/doctors-c...

barkingcat 7y ago
In North American long term care facilities, this is exactly what's happening. In Canada, a ban was put in place to prevent health workers from working in multiple long term care facilities - it was found that infectious material was making its way via health workers from one home to another, all full of high risk populations. Add in the fact that many hospitals in North America are short on PPE, and some are even preventing nurses and care personnelle from wearing PPE (or to bring their own, etc) - and you can see how much of an issue this can be. Of course, beating up the doctors is a bad idea, but the roots of the idea that health workers are potential spreaders isn't all that far fetched.
clort 7y ago
> a (very) few people see them as potential spreaders One problem is that although only a very few will see it this way, other people would be cautious about being caught up in it. This could affect the way they behave because if they think that somebody died in their house from this disease then they won't want to advertise that at all (eg by blowing horns) in case they were subsequently targeted. The fear is likely worse than the reality but behavior like this is driven more by fear. However I can understand that ramraj07 says it seems unlikely on their street as it would surely be difficult in a close community to hide a van coming to take Auntie-ji away.

quantummkv 7y ago

> What? Why are doctors being beaten up? I don't understand. The anti-vax crowd in India tends to be on the violent side of things.