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"... If a student wants to study at Princeton, he doesn’t really need to apply or pay tuition. He can simply show up and start taking classes. As a professor, I

"... If a student wants to study at Princeton, he doesn’t really need to apply or pay tuition. He can simply show up and start taking classes. As a professor, I assure you that we make near-zero effort to stop unofficial education; indeed, the rare, earnestly curious student touches our hearts. At the end of four years at Princeton, though, the guerrilla student would lack one precious thing: a diploma. The fact that almost no one tries this route — saving hundreds of thousands of dollars along the way — is a strong sign that students understand the value of certification over actual learning..." "...Educational austerity is the simplest path back to an economy in which serious on-the-job learning starts during high school — not after college." https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-caplan-education-credentials-20180211-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-caplan-education...

bachmeier 6y ago
The author's not at Princeton, so why is he even offering an opinion? This is a bunch of made up BS anyway. Princeton faculty aren't going to be okay with dozens of extra students attending their lectures (there are room capacity constraints). They're sure as heck not going to grade essays, hold office hours, and answer email inquiries from a few dozen random individuals that decided to stroll into the class. He's basically saying there's no need to buy food because you can eat free samples at the grocery store. He also just happens to be the author of a "contrarian" book arguing that college is worthless. It's purely a coincidence that he's posting misinformation on the same topic - making claims about a university where he doesn't work - in one of the most widely read news outlets.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
>The fact that almost no one tries this route — saving hundreds of thousands of dollars along the way — is a strong sign that students understand the value of certification over actual learning..." Or a sign that some people don't understand the value of networking and the value of what earning admission to Princeton signals.
cafard 6y ago
It may also be a strong sign that few young Americans have the money to live in that area with no income for four years. The student admitted to Princeton can get money--financial aid or loans--to apply to food and shelter. The student apparently just hanging out has to have some other source of money. I also wonder whether the libraries and the computer centers have such a laissez-faire attitude.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  I highly doubt that. In most college towns, at least until very recently, it was really not difficult to get a college-town-like part-time job that could easily pay for food and a shared room. The point is most people aren't going to do that is if the story is at the end of those 4 years you have no credentials to show for it, and I think more importantly, a primary value of college is the social experience. It would be very difficult to integrate yourself into college life if you were not an admitted student without lying.
auntienomen 6y ago
If you don't have a Princeton ID, you aren't going to be allowed into their libraries. You _might_ be able to attend lectures, but basically everything else will be off limits. Good luck joining a study group. If you are genuinely capable of learning everything alone, just from lectures, there's no need to move to NJ. It's all online anyways.
Balero 6y ago
Is this still True? I didn't go to the institution in question, but we had ID cards that we had to show when entering the building. Also I think a more obvious example of it being popular is the courses and lectures that are made freely available online.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  I went to an Ivy League school, and while an ID was needed for some resources (mainly the libraries and gyms), no one would have batted an eye if you went into a decently sized lecture.
  - mattkrause 6y ago
    Sure, but the big lectures (mostly) aren't the draw--it's the smaller seminars. An extra person would definitely stick out in a room of 10!
- bachmeier 6y ago
  Notice that he does a neat little switch there. He talks about Princeton, then he says "As a professor", then he talks about Princeton again. He's a professor at George Mason. I think anyone can figure out why he used Princeton rather than the place he works without actually stating the name of his employer.
  - downerending 6y ago
    It's odd, for sure, but perhaps he just uses Princeton as a relatable example. Most of us have never heard of George Mason.

bachmeier 6y ago

The author's not at Princeton, so why is he even offering an opinion? This is a bunch of made up BS anyway. Princeton faculty aren't going to be okay with dozens of extra students attending their lectures (there are room capacity constraints). They're sure as heck not going to grade essays, hold office hours, and answer email inquiries from a few dozen random individuals that decided to stroll into the class. He's basically saying there's no need to buy food because you can eat free samples at the grocery store. He also just happens to be the author of a "contrarian" book arguing that college is worthless. It's purely a coincidence that he's posting misinformation on the same topic - making claims about a university where he doesn't work - in one of the most widely read news outlets.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

>The fact that almost no one tries this route — saving hundreds of thousands of dollars along the way — is a strong sign that students understand the value of certification over actual learning..." Or a sign that some people don't understand the value of networking and the value of what earning admission to Princeton signals.

cafard 6y ago

It may also be a strong sign that few young Americans have the money to live in that area with no income for four years. The student admitted to Princeton can get money--financial aid or loans--to apply to food and shelter. The student apparently just hanging out has to have some other source of money. I also wonder whether the libraries and the computer centers have such a laissez-faire attitude.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
I highly doubt that. In most college towns, at least until very recently, it was really not difficult to get a college-town-like part-time job that could easily pay for food and a shared room. The point is most people aren't going to do that is if the story is at the end of those 4 years you have no credentials to show for it, and I think more importantly, a primary value of college is the social experience. It would be very difficult to integrate yourself into college life if you were not an admitted student without lying.

auntienomen 6y ago

If you don't have a Princeton ID, you aren't going to be allowed into their libraries. You _might_ be able to attend lectures, but basically everything else will be off limits. Good luck joining a study group. If you are genuinely capable of learning everything alone, just from lectures, there's no need to move to NJ. It's all online anyways.

Balero 6y ago

Is this still True? I didn't go to the institution in question, but we had ID cards that we had to show when entering the building. Also I think a more obvious example of it being popular is the courses and lectures that are made freely available online.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
I went to an Ivy League school, and while an ID was needed for some resources (mainly the libraries and gyms), no one would have batted an eye if you went into a decently sized lecture.
- mattkrause 6y ago
  Sure, but the big lectures (mostly) aren't the draw--it's the smaller seminars. An extra person would definitely stick out in a room of 10!
bachmeier 6y ago
Notice that he does a neat little switch there. He talks about Princeton, then he says "As a professor", then he talks about Princeton again. He's a professor at George Mason. I think anyone can figure out why he used Princeton rather than the place he works without actually stating the name of his employer.
- downerending 6y ago
  It's odd, for sure, but perhaps he just uses Princeton as a relatable example. Most of us have never heard of George Mason.