5 ms·

Tiny binaries probably relied heavily on the native OS's system libraries.

jfries 7y ago
Yes, that would give some peace of mind, right? Unfortunately for us, that's not the case. The only platform specific code is the 8 instructions on top of "Code of framework" on http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/Memories http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/Memories First to set the video mode, and then to set up a timer used to progress time.
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
That may be true sometimes, but "Memories" runs on MS-DOS, so there's precious little "OS", let alone libraries.
stiray 7y ago
No they dont, using them is waste of bytes.
smabie 7y ago
Such as? Doing anything meaningful would take up too many bytes. Regardless, dos doesn't really give you anything useful in the first place.
pjmlp 7y ago
MS-DOS system libraries in what concerns graphics was talking directly to the hardware.
GuB-42 7y ago
A common complaint on tiny demos. Here the OS is only used for setting graphics mode and setting up a timer. Plus all the boot code of course. Not much really, with 512 bytes you can probably do it on the bare metal, if someone didn't already. There is even more debate in 4k. After all, most rely on graphics drivers that take hundreds of megabytes. But the thing to understand is that in any case, the intro ships all the code that produces the sound and image. The OS is just an abstraction layer. The exception would be fonts and MIDI instruments, that can be stored in the hardware or OS. But not all intros have text, "Memories" doesn't. And many intros do their own sound synthesis, though in PC 256 bytes you are usually limited to MIDI or to that horrible buzzer.
- HellMood 7y ago
  (author here) Not quite, a 256 bytes PC intro CAN have decent non MIDI music as showcased here https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=79281 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=79281 (won the "outstanding technical achievment" award) I did some intros in 32 bytes and 16 bytes having that "horrible buzzer", looks like some ASCII effects and a dutch gabber bassline is the maximum you can get in this category :D ( https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=76093 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=76093)
  - GuB-42 7y ago
    That's why I said "usually", the moment someone says something is impossible, someone does it ;) Anyways, great job. I was there during the compo, it was epic, with everyone double checking the executable size, even the old guys who have seen it all. You got my vote BTW.
    - HellMood 7y ago
      #truckbreaker ;) yes, the overall reception was overwhelming, i didn't expect that. i completely agree with your post before, just wanted to point to "ikubun" =)
HellMood 7y ago
(author here) interesting guess, but wrong, as others explained. for maximum purity you can try to NOT call any dos functions or interrupts. i gave that a try in the production "noint10h" ;) https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=80769 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=80769

Yes, that would give some peace of mind, right? Unfortunately for us, that's not the case. The only platform specific code is the 8 instructions on top of "Code of framework" on http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/Memories http://www.sizecoding.org/wiki/Memories First to set the video mode, and then to set up a timer used to progress time.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

That may be true sometimes, but "Memories" runs on MS-DOS, so there's precious little "OS", let alone libraries.

stiray 7y ago

No they dont, using them is waste of bytes.

smabie 7y ago

Such as? Doing anything meaningful would take up too many bytes. Regardless, dos doesn't really give you anything useful in the first place.

pjmlp 7y ago

MS-DOS system libraries in what concerns graphics was talking directly to the hardware.

GuB-42 7y ago

A common complaint on tiny demos. Here the OS is only used for setting graphics mode and setting up a timer. Plus all the boot code of course. Not much really, with 512 bytes you can probably do it on the bare metal, if someone didn't already. There is even more debate in 4k. After all, most rely on graphics drivers that take hundreds of megabytes. But the thing to understand is that in any case, the intro ships all the code that produces the sound and image. The OS is just an abstraction layer. The exception would be fonts and MIDI instruments, that can be stored in the hardware or OS. But not all intros have text, "Memories" doesn't. And many intros do their own sound synthesis, though in PC 256 bytes you are usually limited to MIDI or to that horrible buzzer.

HellMood 7y ago
(author here) Not quite, a 256 bytes PC intro CAN have decent non MIDI music as showcased here https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=79281 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=79281 (won the "outstanding technical achievment" award) I did some intros in 32 bytes and 16 bytes having that "horrible buzzer", looks like some ASCII effects and a dutch gabber bassline is the maximum you can get in this category :D ( https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=76093 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=76093)
- GuB-42 7y ago
  That's why I said "usually", the moment someone says something is impossible, someone does it ;) Anyways, great job. I was there during the compo, it was epic, with everyone double checking the executable size, even the old guys who have seen it all. You got my vote BTW.
  - HellMood 7y ago
    #truckbreaker ;) yes, the overall reception was overwhelming, i didn't expect that. i completely agree with your post before, just wanted to point to "ikubun" =)

HellMood 7y ago

(author here) interesting guess, but wrong, as others explained. for maximum purity you can try to NOT call any dos functions or interrupts. i gave that a try in the production "noint10h" ;) https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=80769 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=80769