3 ms·

Chiming in for an anecdote to say: I'm boycotting Amazon because I am pro-labor and Amazon treats their employees and contractors like almost-literal shit. Even

by uoaei 7y ago

Chiming in for an anecdote to say: I'm boycotting Amazon because I am pro-labor and Amazon treats their employees and contractors like almost-literal shit. Even back when I first entered the workforce all the people I knew who went to work for Amazon had absolutely hellish descriptions of their times there. Employees regularly sobbing at their desks from pressure, PIPs being weaponized to assuage paranoid delusions of mutiny from middle management, etc. It sounded like that description of an experiment with monkeys who beat each other for trying to get food. My housemate drives delivery for Amazon sometimes and his depiction of their health standards and SOP during this crisis are atrocious. If there would be a Geneva convention for employment, Amazon would be most of its raison d'etre.

reddog 7y ago
Thats a very virtuous and noble stance. According to the BLS, among the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America (warehouse worker didn't make the list) are loggers, pilots, fishermen, farmers, construction workers, roofers, trash collector and extraction workers. Can I assume that out of concern for these workers you also don't buy food, don't fly commercially, you dispose of your own refuse, never use anything made out of wood and never enter a man made structure?
- uoaei 7y ago
  You seem to have conflated "Amazon the corporation" with "Amazon's labor force". They are not the same, but it is intriguing that you would take this line of rhetoric. I shop at the local food co-op, and I'm fine with the union leadership for flight attendants and my local waste removal folks. I can't be perfect -- no one can -- but this is a lot better than some others. Of course, this sort of individualistic atomization of "virtue" with almost zero systemic change to address the underlying concerns is ultimately kind of pointless, but I don't see a reason to start encouraging the exploitation of fellow humans any more than I do now. Your response makes me think you were triggered by my position. What stake do you hold with Amazon? Why are you coming to their defense?
- oysteroyster 7y ago
  your argument is just one big logical fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism also danger != horrific working environment
throwaway_12351 7y ago
It's very condescending to say "I am doing this because I am pro-labor", as if, we the other users of Amazon are not pro-labor and don't care about their labour practices, and assumes that we can't read and comprehend. We all have worked at companies where you will have a set of disgruntled employees, and more so in places with more than half a million employees. The whole anti-Amazon narrative is trying to hold Amazon to higher standards using Guardian which itself doesn't have high standards for it's core journalism.
- uoaei 7y ago
  > as if, we the other users of Amazon are not pro-labor and don't care about their labour practices My intention is not to push this narrative. All of us compromise every day on our values, and some matter more to us than others. Personally I thought I'd never drive a fossil-fuel-based vehicle but that quickly became impractical as my priorities called me beyond a 10-mile radius around my home. > trying to hold Amazon to higher standards Do you think Amazon is held to high standards already? I hold them to mediocre standards because I understand they have to compete on an absolutely massive scale in an industry with razor thin margins. But even so, they're not doing all that well. Amazon's coffers are so full they can't re-invest their capital fast enough. So I don't see how anyone can argue that it's bad for society to treat employees as if they're humans who can catch & spread a virus and/or die.
  - throwaway_12351 7y ago
    Yes, I do think Amazon is held to pretty high standards. I have seen more outrage for people who won't work at Amazon complain about the work conditions at Amazon than the actual employees themselves. If your defense is that they might not want to then you need to check your moral high ground. If Amazon does indeed engage in illegal behavior, then one should be hell bent on calling them out but the whole raging behavior at all times drains the emotional bank and when the actual crimes occur people don't have appetite for it.
    - cycomanic 7y ago

by uoaei 7y ago

reddog 7y ago

Thats a very virtuous and noble stance. According to the BLS, among the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America (warehouse worker didn't make the list) are loggers, pilots, fishermen, farmers, construction workers, roofers, trash collector and extraction workers. Can I assume that out of concern for these workers you also don't buy food, don't fly commercially, you dispose of your own refuse, never use anything made out of wood and never enter a man made structure?

uoaei 7y ago
You seem to have conflated "Amazon the corporation" with "Amazon's labor force". They are not the same, but it is intriguing that you would take this line of rhetoric. I shop at the local food co-op, and I'm fine with the union leadership for flight attendants and my local waste removal folks. I can't be perfect -- no one can -- but this is a lot better than some others. Of course, this sort of individualistic atomization of "virtue" with almost zero systemic change to address the underlying concerns is ultimately kind of pointless, but I don't see a reason to start encouraging the exploitation of fellow humans any more than I do now. Your response makes me think you were triggered by my position. What stake do you hold with Amazon? Why are you coming to their defense?
oysteroyster 7y ago
your argument is just one big logical fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism also danger != horrific working environment

throwaway_12351 7y ago

It's very condescending to say "I am doing this because I am pro-labor", as if, we the other users of Amazon are not pro-labor and don't care about their labour practices, and assumes that we can't read and comprehend. We all have worked at companies where you will have a set of disgruntled employees, and more so in places with more than half a million employees. The whole anti-Amazon narrative is trying to hold Amazon to higher standards using Guardian which itself doesn't have high standards for it's core journalism.

uoaei 7y ago
> as if, we the other users of Amazon are not pro-labor and don't care about their labour practices My intention is not to push this narrative. All of us compromise every day on our values, and some matter more to us than others. Personally I thought I'd never drive a fossil-fuel-based vehicle but that quickly became impractical as my priorities called me beyond a 10-mile radius around my home. > trying to hold Amazon to higher standards Do you think Amazon is held to high standards already? I hold them to mediocre standards because I understand they have to compete on an absolutely massive scale in an industry with razor thin margins. But even so, they're not doing all that well. Amazon's coffers are so full they can't re-invest their capital fast enough. So I don't see how anyone can argue that it's bad for society to treat employees as if they're humans who can catch & spread a virus and/or die.
- throwaway_12351 7y ago
  Yes, I do think Amazon is held to pretty high standards. I have seen more outrage for people who won't work at Amazon complain about the work conditions at Amazon than the actual employees themselves. If your defense is that they might not want to then you need to check your moral high ground. If Amazon does indeed engage in illegal behavior, then one should be hell bent on calling them out but the whole raging behavior at all times drains the emotional bank and when the actual crimes occur people don't have appetite for it.
  - cycomanic 7y ago