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A return to 19th century cafe culture is perhaps a bit optimistic. I would be satisfied with a re-emergence early-90's (that is 1990's) chill coffee house. But

A return to 19th century cafe culture is perhaps a bit optimistic. I would be satisfied with a re-emergence early-90's (that is 1990's) chill coffee house. But those days are gone too. I'd say it's because of two reasons: Real Estate (rent too damn high) and no time because everyone is either working or not in the right head-space. There was a time in 1990's where one could read about 19th-century flaneurs and actually think they were also a flaneur, spending all afternoon in a coffee house hanging out with random people, talking about cool stuff. I did it, for a very short while then -poof-, it was gone.

sportsaw 7y ago
This sounds sentimental, I can’t think of anything worse than being stuck in a coffee shop talking to people all day.
- sammalloy 7y ago
  Then you aren’t thinking about it in context. One reason as to why people hung out in coffee shops talking all day has to do with climate. This was a phenomenon in particularly cold climates with inclement weather. So clearly, it was worse to be stuck outside in the cold and rain than inside in the warmth, surrounded by friends and a steaming cup of coffee.
  - steve_adams_86 7y ago
    This was my late teens and early 20s on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. A long, wet, cold, relentless "winter" can only be beaten by warm drinks and good friends. Actually, they don't even have to be great friends, haha. Just need to get out of the house and remind yourself there's more than rain and grey.
- freehunter 7y ago
  Who said anything about being stuck? If you were there, you were there because you wanted to be.
- crispyambulance 7y ago
  Hey, it was great while it lasted and I'm not embarrassed to call it sentimental. What else were you gonna do as an 18-25 year old in the afternoons in 1992, work? Ha! :-)
- DrScump 7y ago
  "People. They're the worst." -- George Costanza
sammalloy 7y ago
Higher Grounds denizen checking in, before they later renamed it Mission Grounds. The early 1990s were the best times for coffee houses in SF.
westoncb 7y ago
The Cafe Mediterraneum[0] in Berkeley retained this kind of atmosphere until a few years ago (money issues from what I heard.) I hung out there on a daily basis for a year or so, and it was like I'd finally found the social environment designed for me: I could go in and just read, or work on whatever I was working on—and typically before long I'd be joined by someone from a fairly large ring of folks who knew each other to varying degrees. There was a kernel of us who all knew each other very well (many had known each other for years or decades even), and then a larger outer circle who would sometimes join in or not but were always around. Occasionally you'd strike up conversation with someone new just because you both had been showing up regularly for a while, and associating with some common people, "Hi, I'm XXX—I see you've been talking with YYY recently. What are those books you have there?" (If you were showing up regularly enough, then you were becoming a "Med Head," which meant you probably had enough in common with any other Med Head that an interesting / amicable conversation would likely result.) There was a rhythm through the week and month when traffic patterns changed or periodic events were held (e.g. Tango night once a month). We knew all the staff and the owner, and at least bits about the life stories and work of a group of regulars numbering somewhere around... 30 maybe? As much as our conversations might be about philosophy, literature, linguistics, mathematics, etc.—they were as often just gossip related to the community there or around town. If you were talking about something that sounded interesting, it was not uncommon for people at nearby tables to chime in, and if that was going well we might join our tables together and continue. It was open until midnight and we'd almost always stay until then, often chatting more rather than working as the time got later. At some point people would pick up instruments or someone would hop on the piano and improvise something while the rest of us continued talking. Maybe a couple times a month a couple of us would order a beer from behind the counter as the night was ending. Several nights a week a group of us would go on a walk around town after closing. Since then, I've considered the existence of a place like that to be the biggest draw to living somewhere—but I haven't had much luck finding it. I was optimistic that Cambridge (MA) would have something, but I never found it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffe_Mediterraneum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffe_Mediterraneum
- jdkee 7y ago
  I remember hanging out at Urbus Orbis in Bucktown in Chicago in the early 1990s. Great magazine selection for sale, strong coffee and meeting many artists who became my friends and leading me to discover metalworking as an artform. Community could form in the 3rd space, between home and work. Other cafes such as Jinx coffeehouse on Division St. as well as local bars contributed to the 1990s Wicker Park/Bucktown vibes. See: http://gapersblock.com/drivethru/2009/11/17/nostalgia_urbis_orbis_and_the_third_place/ http://gapersblock.com/drivethru/2009/11/17/nostalgia_urbis_... See also: https://electronpencil.com/category/urbus-orbis/ https://electronpencil.com/category/urbus-orbis/ https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-last-drop/Content?oid=894960 https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-last-drop/Content?...
arvinsim 7y ago
I don't think not having enough time is the cause. I think it's because people have relatively less purchasing power and buying in to the productivity craze. People don't value leisure as much anymore.
scruple 7y ago
You just made me think of a chill coffee house on the Ohio State University campus that I always loved to study in late at night, back in the 90s, named Insomnia. It had a culture all its own. Lots of great people, lots of great conversation over checkers and chess. I never found another place like it and I completely forgot about it just a couple of years later. It's a shame that they didn't survive, though I'm not surprised. The rent is too damn high, and all of that.
- asdff 7y ago
  Check out Cafe Kerouac. That's where you will find everyone at OSU these days who smokes american spirits.
asdff 7y ago
There's actually a lot of these sort of 90s cafes still around in major cities at least. They accumulate a cult following and host events like open mics regularly. The cafe as a business might not be long lived, but the vibe never really dies so there are always at least a couple in every major metro.
- westoncb 7y ago
  I couldn’t find them in SF or Cambridge. I mean if the threshold is “hosts an open mic” sure, there are plenty. But places that have a substantial / interacting community, where regular customers become friends and the atmosphere is casual/inviting enough for strangers to join in, seem to be few and far between.
  - snakeboy 7y ago
    From personal experience, a small college town can support exactly this kind of atmosphere. Someplace with a healthy mixture of faculty, students and "townies". The one I frequented almost every day of my master's, it had exactly what you describe. No open mic though :) All the regulars knew each other, the proprietor was abundantly welcoming and chatty, and new-comers regularly got drawn into whatever the running topic happened to be that day. Opened in 2012 and still going strong as of the start of the pandemic. I can't speak to larger cities. I imagine the rent issue is a significant obstacle there.
  - asdff 7y ago
    I know a few in LA.
paganel 7y ago
I'm not "cool" by any means but hanging out in cafes for hours without working still happens, I know because I do it (or I used to, before this virus). I always bring a book or a magazine to read with me and I also have my small-ish iPhone SE for HN browsing and that's about it. And I'm not the only one doing it, I almost always see other people just sitting with a book in their hands and drinking a coffee. My gf works from time to time on her laptop while enjoying our coffee but I myself haven't had a "modern" laptop for quite some time (my last laptop is a Mac from 2009) and as such I never bring work with me to the coffee house. I agree that not having kids yet helps with this lifestyle.
- voidpointercast 7y ago
  Lol are you me? Down to the IPhone SE and reading/doing things on my laptop. Scary stuff

sportsaw 7y ago

This sounds sentimental, I can’t think of anything worse than being stuck in a coffee shop talking to people all day.

sammalloy 7y ago
Then you aren’t thinking about it in context. One reason as to why people hung out in coffee shops talking all day has to do with climate. This was a phenomenon in particularly cold climates with inclement weather. So clearly, it was worse to be stuck outside in the cold and rain than inside in the warmth, surrounded by friends and a steaming cup of coffee.
- steve_adams_86 7y ago
  This was my late teens and early 20s on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. A long, wet, cold, relentless "winter" can only be beaten by warm drinks and good friends. Actually, they don't even have to be great friends, haha. Just need to get out of the house and remind yourself there's more than rain and grey.
freehunter 7y ago
Who said anything about being stuck? If you were there, you were there because you wanted to be.
crispyambulance 7y ago
Hey, it was great while it lasted and I'm not embarrassed to call it sentimental. What else were you gonna do as an 18-25 year old in the afternoons in 1992, work? Ha! :-)
DrScump 7y ago
"People. They're the worst." -- George Costanza

sammalloy 7y ago

Higher Grounds denizen checking in, before they later renamed it Mission Grounds. The early 1990s were the best times for coffee houses in SF.

westoncb 7y ago

The Cafe Mediterraneum[0] in Berkeley retained this kind of atmosphere until a few years ago (money issues from what I heard.) I hung out there on a daily basis for a year or so, and it was like I'd finally found the social environment designed for me: I could go in and just read, or work on whatever I was working on—and typically before long I'd be joined by someone from a fairly large ring of folks who knew each other to varying degrees. There was a kernel of us who all knew each other very well (many had known each other for years or decades even), and then a larger outer circle who would sometimes join in or not but were always around. Occasionally you'd strike up conversation with someone new just because you both had been showing up regularly for a while, and associating with some common people, "Hi, I'm XXX—I see you've been talking with YYY recently. What are those books you have there?" (If you were showing up regularly enough, then you were becoming a "Med Head," which meant you probably had enough in common with any other Med Head that an interesting / amicable conversation would likely result.) There was a rhythm through the week and month when traffic patterns changed or periodic events were held (e.g. Tango night once a month). We knew all the staff and the owner, and at least bits about the life stories and work of a group of regulars numbering somewhere around... 30 maybe? As much as our conversations might be about philosophy, literature, linguistics, mathematics, etc.—they were as often just gossip related to the community there or around town. If you were talking about something that sounded interesting, it was not uncommon for people at nearby tables to chime in, and if that was going well we might join our tables together and continue. It was open until midnight and we'd almost always stay until then, often chatting more rather than working as the time got later. At some point people would pick up instruments or someone would hop on the piano and improvise something while the rest of us continued talking. Maybe a couple times a month a couple of us would order a beer from behind the counter as the night was ending. Several nights a week a group of us would go on a walk around town after closing. Since then, I've considered the existence of a place like that to be the biggest draw to living somewhere—but I haven't had much luck finding it. I was optimistic that Cambridge (MA) would have something, but I never found it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffe_Mediterraneum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffe_Mediterraneum

jdkee 7y ago
I remember hanging out at Urbus Orbis in Bucktown in Chicago in the early 1990s. Great magazine selection for sale, strong coffee and meeting many artists who became my friends and leading me to discover metalworking as an artform. Community could form in the 3rd space, between home and work. Other cafes such as Jinx coffeehouse on Division St. as well as local bars contributed to the 1990s Wicker Park/Bucktown vibes. See: http://gapersblock.com/drivethru/2009/11/17/nostalgia_urbis_orbis_and_the_third_place/ http://gapersblock.com/drivethru/2009/11/17/nostalgia_urbis_... See also: https://electronpencil.com/category/urbus-orbis/ https://electronpencil.com/category/urbus-orbis/ https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-last-drop/Content?oid=894960 https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-last-drop/Content?...

arvinsim 7y ago

I don't think not having enough time is the cause. I think it's because people have relatively less purchasing power and buying in to the productivity craze. People don't value leisure as much anymore.

scruple 7y ago

You just made me think of a chill coffee house on the Ohio State University campus that I always loved to study in late at night, back in the 90s, named Insomnia. It had a culture all its own. Lots of great people, lots of great conversation over checkers and chess. I never found another place like it and I completely forgot about it just a couple of years later. It's a shame that they didn't survive, though I'm not surprised. The rent is too damn high, and all of that.

asdff 7y ago
Check out Cafe Kerouac. That's where you will find everyone at OSU these days who smokes american spirits.

asdff 7y ago

There's actually a lot of these sort of 90s cafes still around in major cities at least. They accumulate a cult following and host events like open mics regularly. The cafe as a business might not be long lived, but the vibe never really dies so there are always at least a couple in every major metro.

westoncb 7y ago
I couldn’t find them in SF or Cambridge. I mean if the threshold is “hosts an open mic” sure, there are plenty. But places that have a substantial / interacting community, where regular customers become friends and the atmosphere is casual/inviting enough for strangers to join in, seem to be few and far between.
- snakeboy 7y ago
  From personal experience, a small college town can support exactly this kind of atmosphere. Someplace with a healthy mixture of faculty, students and "townies". The one I frequented almost every day of my master's, it had exactly what you describe. No open mic though :) All the regulars knew each other, the proprietor was abundantly welcoming and chatty, and new-comers regularly got drawn into whatever the running topic happened to be that day. Opened in 2012 and still going strong as of the start of the pandemic. I can't speak to larger cities. I imagine the rent issue is a significant obstacle there.
- asdff 7y ago
  I know a few in LA.

paganel 7y ago

I'm not "cool" by any means but hanging out in cafes for hours without working still happens, I know because I do it (or I used to, before this virus). I always bring a book or a magazine to read with me and I also have my small-ish iPhone SE for HN browsing and that's about it. And I'm not the only one doing it, I almost always see other people just sitting with a book in their hands and drinking a coffee. My gf works from time to time on her laptop while enjoying our coffee but I myself haven't had a "modern" laptop for quite some time (my last laptop is a Mac from 2009) and as such I never bring work with me to the coffee house. I agree that not having kids yet helps with this lifestyle.

voidpointercast 7y ago
Lol are you me? Down to the IPhone SE and reading/doing things on my laptop. Scary stuff