4 ms·

sure, but the actual "on the ground" end result is Europeans get healthcare and rights at work, and Americans don't. Yes, Europeans do have a higher quality of

sure, but the actual "on the ground" end result is Europeans get healthcare and rights at work, and Americans don't. Yes, Europeans do have a higher quality of life, I agree.

crocodiletears 6y ago
That's true. The US has a lot to work on, and there are trade-offs to be made before we achieve a proper balance. I'm personally quite happy to be in America, and it would take a lot to get me to consider living in a more paternalistic European society, even if it left me better off. Others wouldn't make that exchange, because they have little use for the more absolute liberties we have stateside.
- amiga_500 6y ago
  Europeans have the right to free speech, to protest, to assemble (covid excepted), etc. What they don't have is an army of low paid people, who have no choice but to deliver services cheaply to those who can afford it. I suspect many in America like this part of "capitalism". ----- reply to effie below as I've talked about something that the HN police don't like and have the fake "you're submitting too fast". ----- It's a reasonable point, but as you say they have some protections, and this enables them to refuse low pay and bad working conditions, up to a point. Also although all human life has great value, we are comparing immigrants (and agreeing they have better protection) to citizens in the USA, who have weaker protection. Really quite incredible.
  - effie 6y ago
    Actually we have those! Cheap migrant workers from eastern Europe make lots of things move here but their choices are limited. We have protections for them at least on paper, and together with low pay that's still better for them than staying home. Most importantly, (I think) they can (with ordinary medical insurance) go to a doctor for an exam or medicine without getting charged thousands of dollars. The real difference is how the citizens are protected. In Europe, citizen is treated as human regardless of how much money they have. In U.S. this doesn't seem to be so. The money is more important.

sure, but the actual "on the ground" end result is Europeans get healthcare and rights at work, and Americans don't. Yes, Europeans do have a higher quality of life, I agree.

crocodiletears 6y ago

That's true. The US has a lot to work on, and there are trade-offs to be made before we achieve a proper balance. I'm personally quite happy to be in America, and it would take a lot to get me to consider living in a more paternalistic European society, even if it left me better off. Others wouldn't make that exchange, because they have little use for the more absolute liberties we have stateside.

amiga_500 6y ago
Europeans have the right to free speech, to protest, to assemble (covid excepted), etc. What they don't have is an army of low paid people, who have no choice but to deliver services cheaply to those who can afford it. I suspect many in America like this part of "capitalism". ----- reply to effie below as I've talked about something that the HN police don't like and have the fake "you're submitting too fast". ----- It's a reasonable point, but as you say they have some protections, and this enables them to refuse low pay and bad working conditions, up to a point. Also although all human life has great value, we are comparing immigrants (and agreeing they have better protection) to citizens in the USA, who have weaker protection. Really quite incredible.
- effie 6y ago
  Actually we have those! Cheap migrant workers from eastern Europe make lots of things move here but their choices are limited. We have protections for them at least on paper, and together with low pay that's still better for them than staying home. Most importantly, (I think) they can (with ordinary medical insurance) go to a doctor for an exam or medicine without getting charged thousands of dollars. The real difference is how the citizens are protected. In Europe, citizen is treated as human regardless of how much money they have. In U.S. this doesn't seem to be so. The money is more important.