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What I am guessing: Appliance cost: You can get a $500 normal fridge with 100's of choices or the one $2000 integrated with the home system one that does the s

What I am guessing: Appliance cost: You can get a $500 normal fridge with 100's of choices or the one $2000 integrated with the home system one that does the same things from a specialist supplier. Then factor in integrated appliances / size of fridge for spot. Installation cost: In the order of $1000s for parts and labor. Installation authority: If you are renting, or need building owner permissions (e.g. an apartment) then no chance. The only people buying this are those "grand designs" type people who are architecting their own house with say $1m build budget and want to be "eco".

danans 7y ago
> The only people buying this are those "grand designs" type people who are architecting their own house with say $1m build budget and want to be "eco". Sad but mostly true in the US. High efficiency appliances are market segmented as luxury goods, therefore mostly purchased by the well off, limiting the energy used reduction impact of the technology. This is less the case in societies with high energy costs, like Japan or parts of Europe. Heat pumps are not a new technology - they are air conditioners that can be run in reverse, and in a broader range of conditions.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  It’s a luxury good because it’s more expensive than natural gas in the US. Natural gas systems are cheap, easy to work on, and resilient because they can continue working even when the electricity isn’t (especially nice in winter during snow storms).
  - danans 7y ago
    > because it’s more expensive than natural gas in the US Assuming the antecedent for "it" is electricity, yes - on a per BTU basis nat gas is cheaper, but the beauty of heat pumps is that they move ambient heat instead of releasing it from chemical bonds, so they cost about the same to operate as nat gas water heaters. Coupled with solar, their operating coat gets even cheaper. I agree that they are more expensive to build than a simple nat gas heater, but they also don't need exhaust ventilation ducts. Also, higher efficiency condensing nat gas furnaces are also more expensive, requiring fans to force cooled exhaust gases out of the exhaust. > easy to work on This is the reason everyday non green-focused HVAC contractors have given me for why they don't install heat pumps. They and their crews aren't familiar with them.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 7y ago
    Natural gas is available to a large fraction of the US population, but not a large fraction of the landmass. Something to keep in mind.

danans 7y ago

> The only people buying this are those "grand designs" type people who are architecting their own house with say $1m build budget and want to be "eco". Sad but mostly true in the US. High efficiency appliances are market segmented as luxury goods, therefore mostly purchased by the well off, limiting the energy used reduction impact of the technology. This is less the case in societies with high energy costs, like Japan or parts of Europe. Heat pumps are not a new technology - they are air conditioners that can be run in reverse, and in a broader range of conditions.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
It’s a luxury good because it’s more expensive than natural gas in the US. Natural gas systems are cheap, easy to work on, and resilient because they can continue working even when the electricity isn’t (especially nice in winter during snow storms).
- danans 7y ago
  > because it’s more expensive than natural gas in the US Assuming the antecedent for "it" is electricity, yes - on a per BTU basis nat gas is cheaper, but the beauty of heat pumps is that they move ambient heat instead of releasing it from chemical bonds, so they cost about the same to operate as nat gas water heaters. Coupled with solar, their operating coat gets even cheaper. I agree that they are more expensive to build than a simple nat gas heater, but they also don't need exhaust ventilation ducts. Also, higher efficiency condensing nat gas furnaces are also more expensive, requiring fans to force cooled exhaust gases out of the exhaust. > easy to work on This is the reason everyday non green-focused HVAC contractors have given me for why they don't install heat pumps. They and their crews aren't familiar with them.
- PaulDavisThe1st 7y ago
  Natural gas is available to a large fraction of the US population, but not a large fraction of the landmass. Something to keep in mind.