5 ms·

50$ a month for hot water seems really high? I’ve never gone over 20$. Anything you want to tell us?

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Water usage basically scales with household size. GP probably isn't a single dude living in a studio apartment taking navy showers and planning his meal prep to minimize dish washing. Combine that with an electric water heater (almost always more expensive to run than natural gas) and a nearly triple digit electricity bill isn't surprising.
amluto 7y ago
Propane, I’d guess. With propane, you are paying someone to truck propane to you and pump it into your tank. You are also paying all the costs of owning and maintaining the tank. If you live in a place with reliable electricity, I don’t think propane really makes sense any more. You can get heat and hot water from heat pumps, and induction stoves work well and are vastly more efficient than gas.
- oflannabhra 7y ago
  In rural areas, where propane is common, with some density (1-5 acre lots), lots of places converted to natural gas after the fracking boom. That’s not to say that propane is still not common.
  - mrfusion 7y ago
    You get natural gas delivered? What’s so special about propane anyway that it’s the defacto portable gas?
    - koolba 7y ago
      It’s liquid at ambient temperatures under pressure so it transports and stores well. Also it’s a tad more energy dense than natural gas.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      Propane has higher energy density, can be liquified by compression, and doesn't need cryogenic tanks.
    - ridgeguy 7y ago
      Propane is easily transported and stored as a moderately pressurized liquid at ambient temperatures. Propane has a big volumetric advantage over natural gas. Natural gas is mainly methane, liquifies at -160°C, and requires active refrigeration. If your use point is within natural gas piping range, gas is usually the better choice. Propane is the choice for locations not served by piped natural gas.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Fun factoid: Propane leaks are far more dangerous than methane leaks. Methane is less dense than air, so it tends to mix more fully. But propane is more dense than air, so it tends to pool near the floor. And the lower flammability limit for propane is lower (2.1% vs 5.0%). So you reach the lower flammability limit faster. Plus the fact that pilot lights are often near the floor.
- samatman 7y ago
  Induction is alright, and some people prefer it. Vastly superior to radiant electric. If you really like cooking on gas (I happen to) the expense of running a propane range is insignificant compared to the amount of propane you'd burn to heat water or a home.
- mlindner 7y ago
  Why would you go with propane? Natural gas is ubiquitous and everywhere (at least in the US). Maybe it's less so in the south? In the north it's mandatory for not dying in the winter unless you're so rural that you need to chop wood to stay warm.
  - tingletech 7y ago
    in rural Sierra Nevada foothills California counties there is not ubiquitous natural gas
  - wbond 7y ago
    No, natural gas is not ubiquitous. Maybe within certain urban and suburban areas, but once you get a little rural you are out of luck. Then again, a lot of people don’t realize cable internet isn’t a given, even within 15 minutes of the capital city of a state in the contiguous United States. They also don’t have natural gas available. :-)
    - kube-system 7y ago
      Water and sewer too. Copper telephone and electricity are the only two utilities you can count on in the most rural 10% of America.
  - repiret 7y ago
    In rural eastern Oregon, there is not ubiquitous natural gas. I don’t think anybody chooses propane over natural gas, but natural gas is unavailable to a great many people.
  - cpwright 7y ago
    In suburban NY you don't have ubiquitous natural gas. Some, but not all, new developments are natural gas, but many existing ones are heating oil. Propane is also a possibility, but much more expensive so is not used as often as oil except for cooking.
lutorm 7y ago
Before we a) put in PV and b) got that heat pump water heater, we paid about $50 for our hot water heater electricity use (~160kWh/month) here in HI.

Water usage basically scales with household size. GP probably isn't a single dude living in a studio apartment taking navy showers and planning his meal prep to minimize dish washing. Combine that with an electric water heater (almost always more expensive to run than natural gas) and a nearly triple digit electricity bill isn't surprising.

amluto 7y ago

Propane, I’d guess. With propane, you are paying someone to truck propane to you and pump it into your tank. You are also paying all the costs of owning and maintaining the tank. If you live in a place with reliable electricity, I don’t think propane really makes sense any more. You can get heat and hot water from heat pumps, and induction stoves work well and are vastly more efficient than gas.

oflannabhra 7y ago
In rural areas, where propane is common, with some density (1-5 acre lots), lots of places converted to natural gas after the fracking boom. That’s not to say that propane is still not common.
- mrfusion 7y ago
  You get natural gas delivered? What’s so special about propane anyway that it’s the defacto portable gas?
  - koolba 7y ago
    It’s liquid at ambient temperatures under pressure so it transports and stores well. Also it’s a tad more energy dense than natural gas.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    Propane has higher energy density, can be liquified by compression, and doesn't need cryogenic tanks.
  - ridgeguy 7y ago
    Propane is easily transported and stored as a moderately pressurized liquid at ambient temperatures. Propane has a big volumetric advantage over natural gas. Natural gas is mainly methane, liquifies at -160°C, and requires active refrigeration. If your use point is within natural gas piping range, gas is usually the better choice. Propane is the choice for locations not served by piped natural gas.
- mirimir 7y ago
  Fun factoid: Propane leaks are far more dangerous than methane leaks. Methane is less dense than air, so it tends to mix more fully. But propane is more dense than air, so it tends to pool near the floor. And the lower flammability limit for propane is lower (2.1% vs 5.0%). So you reach the lower flammability limit faster. Plus the fact that pilot lights are often near the floor.
samatman 7y ago
Induction is alright, and some people prefer it. Vastly superior to radiant electric. If you really like cooking on gas (I happen to) the expense of running a propane range is insignificant compared to the amount of propane you'd burn to heat water or a home.
mlindner 7y ago
Why would you go with propane? Natural gas is ubiquitous and everywhere (at least in the US). Maybe it's less so in the south? In the north it's mandatory for not dying in the winter unless you're so rural that you need to chop wood to stay warm.
- tingletech 7y ago
  in rural Sierra Nevada foothills California counties there is not ubiquitous natural gas
- wbond 7y ago
  No, natural gas is not ubiquitous. Maybe within certain urban and suburban areas, but once you get a little rural you are out of luck. Then again, a lot of people don’t realize cable internet isn’t a given, even within 15 minutes of the capital city of a state in the contiguous United States. They also don’t have natural gas available. :-)
  - kube-system 7y ago
    Water and sewer too. Copper telephone and electricity are the only two utilities you can count on in the most rural 10% of America.
- repiret 7y ago
  In rural eastern Oregon, there is not ubiquitous natural gas. I don’t think anybody chooses propane over natural gas, but natural gas is unavailable to a great many people.
- cpwright 7y ago
  In suburban NY you don't have ubiquitous natural gas. Some, but not all, new developments are natural gas, but many existing ones are heating oil. Propane is also a possibility, but much more expensive so is not used as often as oil except for cooking.

lutorm 7y ago

Before we a) put in PV and b) got that heat pump water heater, we paid about $50 for our hot water heater electricity use (~160kWh/month) here in HI.