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To anyone reading the comment above, it is extremely poor advice and should not be followed. Stay at home and shelter in place orders are not solely for the pu

To anyone reading the comment above, it is extremely poor advice and should not be followed. Stay at home and shelter in place orders are not solely for the purpose of protecting ones-self from contracting the virus. They also serve to limit the spread from unsuspecting carriers. You can carry and spread the virus unknowingly and this will result in susceptible people contracting it and dying. The only way we know that shelter in place orders worked is if they feel like an overreaction after this is all over with. We're all scared and desperately seeking answers and relief. We all want this to be over as soon as possible. But we must put the public health above all else. This is not the time for egocentric defiance of the recommendations from our leaders.

cobookman 6y ago
So when do you lift the stay in place? When there's 0 cases? If so, what if that never happens?
- xsmasher 6y ago
  I've heard some mention of "two weeks of decline in the number of new cases." That sounds reasonable to me.
- tptacek 6y ago
  Nearly uniform testing levels among the states sufficient to indicate that we're getting a real sample of the population, and not the biased sick sample we're getting with PCR testing, would be a start. If you want to be angry about something, be angry that we can't get our act together to get this data collected. It's going to be a lot easier to win arguments about lockdown when we're confident in our testing data. Right now, nobody is.
- MrGando 6y ago
  You start doing it when you can gather enough information, fast enough to prevent new spikes from happening. The number of "known cases" becomes very low, and then ideally one can react fast enough when new clusters start forming.
- jstarfish 6y ago
  When someone comes up with a sane, sensible and actionable plan. Waiting it out for a vaccine. Even/odd days. Provisioning of masks for everybody. Enough toilet paper to ensure basic sanitation. Enough COVID tests to effectively gauge progress or regress. Rationing. Put all unemployed Americans on the military payroll and make them take turns delivering supplies. We could look at what any other country who has made even nominal progress with this epidemic have done, pick any single step at random and it would be one made in the right direction. Instead we've all been told to stay home just long enough to lose our jobs, file some papers and (maybe) receive a paltry stipend, we don't even have the testing infrastructure to know how bad this really is (confirmed cases aren't increasing if the supply of tests isn't keeping up with demand!), and that isn't stopping our syphilitic warlock from telling everybody to take anti-parasitics, drink Lysol and get back out there before it affects his re-election campaign. There is no leadership. There is no plan. There's a reason this isn't getting better, but letting nature take its course is not the solution.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    So much this. Mine is a trite comment, but I can't put it any better than you have.
glofish 6y ago
> The only way we know that shelter in place orders worked is if they feel like an overreaction after this is all over with. That makes no sense whatsoever. Millions of children are not vaccinated because of the lockdown. Will the mayor take responsibility for his share of deaths that will occur? Will there be a counter for that, that ticks up every day? And for all the pain and suffering of those that can't afford gratuitous shutdowns?
- chasd00 6y ago
  "forget it Jake, it's Chinatown"
CPLX 6y ago
> The only way we know that shelter in place orders worked is if they feel like an overreaction after this is all over with. That's the only way to know? You think it's reasonable to take away the civil liberties of seven million people indefinitely without at least trying to come up with a better performance metric than that? You have literally no interest in setting up any kind of plan to assess how the policy is working?
- primeradical 6y ago
  The only people losing civil liberties are the people that die after contracting the virus because we failed to social distance for the necessary amount of time. The "performance metric" you're looking for is the number of tests we conduct. Unless we're testing hundreds of thousands every day, we have no choice but to continue to shelter in place or stay at home. We are not even close to the amount of testing we need to know who does and doesn't have the virus.
  - CPLX 6y ago
    OK I'll take your bait. What if we have enough tests, then what's the rule?
    - primeradical 6y ago
      When you have enough tests, you know who has the virus and who doesn't. All those infected (and all the people they've contacted) can quarantine or seek the care they need, and those who aren't infected can all go get haircuts.
      - CPLX 6y ago
        So the shelter in place order should be in effect until we have conducted approximately seven million tests, after which we will institute a voluntary program where people who test positive are asked to quarantine and seek care?
- arblify 6y ago
jkasdflklzxcv 6y ago
fascist
jshevek 6y ago
> This is not the time for egocentric defiance of the recommendations from our leaders. This is not a fair representation of the alternative and contrary viewpoints.
- primeradical 6y ago
  I understand you feel my characterization is unfair. But the focus on our own personal interaction with the virus without acknowledging how ignoring shelter at home orders can spread the virus to others, is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.
  - forgotmylogin2 6y ago
    Your focus on the virus spread while ignoring the tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs because of this is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.
    - primeradical 6y ago
      I don't understand your statement. Could you clarify?
      - jshevek 6y ago
        They are illustrating the problems intrinsic to your justification for your extremist and narrow minded position.
  - jshevek 6y ago
    No, I'm not expressing my emotions, I'm pointing out the lack of intellectual integrity in the statement.
    - primeradical 6y ago
      We'll make it through this man. It's gonna be okay.

cobookman 6y ago

So when do you lift the stay in place? When there's 0 cases? If so, what if that never happens?

xsmasher 6y ago
I've heard some mention of "two weeks of decline in the number of new cases." That sounds reasonable to me.
tptacek 6y ago
Nearly uniform testing levels among the states sufficient to indicate that we're getting a real sample of the population, and not the biased sick sample we're getting with PCR testing, would be a start. If you want to be angry about something, be angry that we can't get our act together to get this data collected. It's going to be a lot easier to win arguments about lockdown when we're confident in our testing data. Right now, nobody is.
MrGando 6y ago
You start doing it when you can gather enough information, fast enough to prevent new spikes from happening. The number of "known cases" becomes very low, and then ideally one can react fast enough when new clusters start forming.
jstarfish 6y ago
When someone comes up with a sane, sensible and actionable plan. Waiting it out for a vaccine. Even/odd days. Provisioning of masks for everybody. Enough toilet paper to ensure basic sanitation. Enough COVID tests to effectively gauge progress or regress. Rationing. Put all unemployed Americans on the military payroll and make them take turns delivering supplies. We could look at what any other country who has made even nominal progress with this epidemic have done, pick any single step at random and it would be one made in the right direction. Instead we've all been told to stay home just long enough to lose our jobs, file some papers and (maybe) receive a paltry stipend, we don't even have the testing infrastructure to know how bad this really is (confirmed cases aren't increasing if the supply of tests isn't keeping up with demand!), and that isn't stopping our syphilitic warlock from telling everybody to take anti-parasitics, drink Lysol and get back out there before it affects his re-election campaign. There is no leadership. There is no plan. There's a reason this isn't getting better, but letting nature take its course is not the solution.
- mindslight 6y ago
  So much this. Mine is a trite comment, but I can't put it any better than you have.

glofish 6y ago

> The only way we know that shelter in place orders worked is if they feel like an overreaction after this is all over with. That makes no sense whatsoever. Millions of children are not vaccinated because of the lockdown. Will the mayor take responsibility for his share of deaths that will occur? Will there be a counter for that, that ticks up every day? And for all the pain and suffering of those that can't afford gratuitous shutdowns?

chasd00 6y ago
"forget it Jake, it's Chinatown"

CPLX 6y ago

> The only way we know that shelter in place orders worked is if they feel like an overreaction after this is all over with. That's the only way to know? You think it's reasonable to take away the civil liberties of seven million people indefinitely without at least trying to come up with a better performance metric than that? You have literally no interest in setting up any kind of plan to assess how the policy is working?

primeradical 6y ago
The only people losing civil liberties are the people that die after contracting the virus because we failed to social distance for the necessary amount of time. The "performance metric" you're looking for is the number of tests we conduct. Unless we're testing hundreds of thousands every day, we have no choice but to continue to shelter in place or stay at home. We are not even close to the amount of testing we need to know who does and doesn't have the virus.
- CPLX 6y ago
  OK I'll take your bait. What if we have enough tests, then what's the rule?
  - primeradical 6y ago
    When you have enough tests, you know who has the virus and who doesn't. All those infected (and all the people they've contacted) can quarantine or seek the care they need, and those who aren't infected can all go get haircuts.
    - CPLX 6y ago
      So the shelter in place order should be in effect until we have conducted approximately seven million tests, after which we will institute a voluntary program where people who test positive are asked to quarantine and seek care?
arblify 6y ago

jkasdflklzxcv 6y ago

fascist

jshevek 6y ago

> This is not the time for egocentric defiance of the recommendations from our leaders. This is not a fair representation of the alternative and contrary viewpoints.

primeradical 6y ago
I understand you feel my characterization is unfair. But the focus on our own personal interaction with the virus without acknowledging how ignoring shelter at home orders can spread the virus to others, is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.
- forgotmylogin2 6y ago
  Your focus on the virus spread while ignoring the tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs because of this is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.
  - primeradical 6y ago
    I don't understand your statement. Could you clarify?
    - jshevek 6y ago
      They are illustrating the problems intrinsic to your justification for your extremist and narrow minded position.
- jshevek 6y ago
  No, I'm not expressing my emotions, I'm pointing out the lack of intellectual integrity in the statement.
  - primeradical 6y ago
    We'll make it through this man. It's gonna be okay.