5 ms·

What do his credentials have to do with anything? I don't care.

DonHopkins 6y ago
You're obviously being sarcastic when you say "I don't care." Otherwise you would have let the topic drop a long time ago. The timeline proves how idiotic it was for you to complain that Scott's dissertation wasn't as good as Photoshop (while his stay at Xerox PARC was SPONSORED by John Warnock, president of Adobe). Again: Photoshop was released AFTER Scott's dissertation. And a commercial product developed and supported by thousands of full time people over decades is in no way comparable to a PhD dissertation written by one person that is clearly labeled "Caution: this is basic research, not a proposal for a practical piece of software." Do you also attack Scott's thesis advisor Donald Knuth, because Metafont isn't as powerful as Adobe Illustrator? You're baselessly attacking Scott for his "exploratory research" that was completed BEFORE Photoshop was even released. So your indefensible position is that it was wrong for me to post his thesis to this discussion because his exploratory research wasn't better than a product released AFTER he received his PhD thesis from the guy you claim not to know, Donald Knuth. It's ironic you'd criticize Scott for his exploratory research not being better than a commercial product from Adobe that was released later, since Adobe respects him enough to invite him to give distinguished lectures like this: https://research.adobe.com/distinguished-lecture-series/ https://research.adobe.com/distinguished-lecture-series/ >The Adobe Distinguished Lecture Series brings our industry’s most eminent researchers and creative professionals to the Adobe campus for a lecture and full day of informal discussions. Sponsored by the Adobe Research, the series provides an opportunity to meet and learn from visionaries at the cutting edge of digital media. >FEBRUARY 05, 2009. 12:30PM. Scott Kim (Shufflebrain) https://research.adobe.com/lecture/scott-kim-shufflebrain/ https://research.adobe.com/lecture/scott-kim-shufflebrain/ >Scott Kim (Shufflebrain). February 05, 2009 12:30pm. Games for Visual Thinking. >In this talk veteran puzzle designer Scott Kim will show you original puzzles that stimulate visual imagination. You will see magazine puzzles that introduce ideas is visual design. You will see animated ambigrams that playfully combine typography and illusion. And you will see how his new online game Photograb exercises visual thinking skills. Finally Scott will discuss what makes a good puzzle, and how games can change the way you think. >BIO: Scott Kim is one of the world’s most prolific and versatile puzzle designers. He has designed thousands of puzzles for such web game companies as PopCap, Gamehouse and the Tetris Company. He is the puzzle columnist for Discover magazine, and writes the annual Brainteasers page-a-day calendar. His strategy game MetaSquares is now available on iPhone. He has designed educational games for puzzle toy company ThinkFun. Scott has a PhD in Computers and Graphic Design from Stanford University. He is now designing smart games for his new company Shufflebrain. Do you really believe you're infallible? And that I and everyone else is infallible too? Or was that just your sarcastic spelling? Which visual programming languages have you actually developed or even used? Or are you just all talk and baseless criticism for other people with decades more experience than you? I worked on developing and documenting and programming in the visual programming language in The Sims, SimAntics, which worked well enough to ship in an award winning product that was the top selling PC game of all time, so a lot of people have used it (over 200 million copies sold, making EA over $5 billion), and it works quite well. So by any measure, that's at least one example of a successful visual programming language. https://www.ladbible.com/technology/gaming-the-sims-franchise-has-officially-made-over-5-billion-20191031 https://www.ladbible.com/technology/gaming-the-sims-franchis... >The Sims Franchise Has Officially Made Over $5 Billion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-exdu4ETscs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-exdu4ETscs >The Sims, Pie Menus, Edith Editing, and SimAntics Visual Programming Demo. This is a demonstration of the pie menus, architectural editing tools, and Edith visual programming tools that I developed for The Sims with Will Wright at Maxis and Electronic Arts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY >The Sims Steering Committee - June 4 1998. A demo of an early pre-release version of The Sims for The Sims Steering Committee at EA, developed June 4 1998. Documentation that I wrote about the visual programming language in The Sims: https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/VirtualMachine.pdf https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/VirtualMa... Ken Forbus taught SimAntics programming with Edith it in his game design course: https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/ProgrammingObjectsInTheSimsV3.pdf https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/Programmi... And I've also worked on developing other visual programming languages, like Bounce / Body Electric, and others that weren't released as commercial products. And I've actually used (and studied the visual code and source code and extension APIs of) a bunch of other visual programming languages, too. https://medium.com/@donhopkins/bounce-stuff-8310551a96e3 https://medium.com/@donhopkins/bounce-stuff-8310551a96e3 https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/visual-programming/bounce-notes.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/visual-programming/b... Which visual programming languages have you used, and what did you use them for? Have you ever actually designed or developed any yourself? So now are you finally willing to share any of your great ideas and experiences, since you admit that you'll never get around to actually implementing those ideas yourself? What do you have to lose by sharing them, then? And if you refuse to share your ideas that you'll never implement, then why did you even bring them up in the first place?
- crimsonalucard 6y ago
  >Do you really believe you're infallible? And that I and everyone else is infallible too? Or was that just your sarcastic spelling? Not a misspelling. A misuse of a word. Can we move on from this? >So now are you finally willing to share any of your great ideas and experiences, since you admit that you'll never get around to actually implementing those ideas yourself? What do you have to lose by sharing them, then? And if you refuse to share your ideas that you'll never implement, then why did you even bring them up in the first place? The topic of conversation is viewpoint and in my opinion viewpoint is not an example of a good visual programming language as it's not even turing complete. I illustrated my thoughts on what a good visual programming language would entail. That is the topic. Whatever your background is, great. Whatever my background is it doesn't matter. I will say it's not as illustrious as yours and I have not implemented a visual programming language for a best selling game. Either way credentials have nothing to do with the topic at hand. I don't care about the timeline of things and the real topic at hand isn't who made a better photoshop. The topic at hand is visual programming languages. I made a comment on my thoughts about viewpoint and what I thought about what a visual language should look like. It appears that you disagree with me except, none of my thoughts were addressed. I just mostly see credentials of everyone being mentioned everywhere. I'm willing to talk about visual programming languages but I'm not going to introduce my idea to you because I don't know you and you haven't been very friendly to me. Additionally I only want to introduce it at a point in time when I have the resources to be very involved with the project if that ever happens in my lifetime. I'm not going to just give it to you so you can run with it. Also it's not that great of an idea anyway, it wasn't brought up to be talked about, it was just "mentioned" is a better word for it. Likely it will never get implemented as I don't have have the time to get it working. Visual programming is an interdisciplinary field that requires expertise in programming language theory, user interface design and graphics programming. My specialty is just web, so while I'm learning those things on the side because I'm interested in those things, whether all of that coalesces into a visual programming language remains to be seen.
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    Instead of complaining that you're not interested in all these different topics and people you don't want to know anything about, and then mentioning your own things as being superior to the things you're criticizing, but then refusing to say anything more about your own things when asked, and then complaining that Scott Kim didn't make a better Photoshop, but then complaining that "the real topic at hand isn't who made a better photoshop", and then being sarcastic some of the time, but also accidentally using words that mean the exact opposite of what you intend (which makes it hard to tell your sarcasm from your mistakes, just like Trump), it would have been a better idea for you to simply not participate in this discussion that you find so uninteresting and refuse to contribute to.

You're obviously being sarcastic when you say "I don't care." Otherwise you would have let the topic drop a long time ago. The timeline proves how idiotic it was for you to complain that Scott's dissertation wasn't as good as Photoshop (while his stay at Xerox PARC was SPONSORED by John Warnock, president of Adobe). Again: Photoshop was released AFTER Scott's dissertation. And a commercial product developed and supported by thousands of full time people over decades is in no way comparable to a PhD dissertation written by one person that is clearly labeled "Caution: this is basic research, not a proposal for a practical piece of software." Do you also attack Scott's thesis advisor Donald Knuth, because Metafont isn't as powerful as Adobe Illustrator? You're baselessly attacking Scott for his "exploratory research" that was completed BEFORE Photoshop was even released. So your indefensible position is that it was wrong for me to post his thesis to this discussion because his exploratory research wasn't better than a product released AFTER he received his PhD thesis from the guy you claim not to know, Donald Knuth. It's ironic you'd criticize Scott for his exploratory research not being better than a commercial product from Adobe that was released later, since Adobe respects him enough to invite him to give distinguished lectures like this: https://research.adobe.com/distinguished-lecture-series/ https://research.adobe.com/distinguished-lecture-series/ >The Adobe Distinguished Lecture Series brings our industry’s most eminent researchers and creative professionals to the Adobe campus for a lecture and full day of informal discussions. Sponsored by the Adobe Research, the series provides an opportunity to meet and learn from visionaries at the cutting edge of digital media. >FEBRUARY 05, 2009. 12:30PM. Scott Kim (Shufflebrain) https://research.adobe.com/lecture/scott-kim-shufflebrain/ https://research.adobe.com/lecture/scott-kim-shufflebrain/ >Scott Kim (Shufflebrain). February 05, 2009 12:30pm. Games for Visual Thinking. >In this talk veteran puzzle designer Scott Kim will show you original puzzles that stimulate visual imagination. You will see magazine puzzles that introduce ideas is visual design. You will see animated ambigrams that playfully combine typography and illusion. And you will see how his new online game Photograb exercises visual thinking skills. Finally Scott will discuss what makes a good puzzle, and how games can change the way you think. >BIO: Scott Kim is one of the world’s most prolific and versatile puzzle designers. He has designed thousands of puzzles for such web game companies as PopCap, Gamehouse and the Tetris Company. He is the puzzle columnist for Discover magazine, and writes the annual Brainteasers page-a-day calendar. His strategy game MetaSquares is now available on iPhone. He has designed educational games for puzzle toy company ThinkFun. Scott has a PhD in Computers and Graphic Design from Stanford University. He is now designing smart games for his new company Shufflebrain. Do you really believe you're infallible? And that I and everyone else is infallible too? Or was that just your sarcastic spelling? Which visual programming languages have you actually developed or even used? Or are you just all talk and baseless criticism for other people with decades more experience than you? I worked on developing and documenting and programming in the visual programming language in The Sims, SimAntics, which worked well enough to ship in an award winning product that was the top selling PC game of all time, so a lot of people have used it (over 200 million copies sold, making EA over $5 billion), and it works quite well. So by any measure, that's at least one example of a successful visual programming language. https://www.ladbible.com/technology/gaming-the-sims-franchise-has-officially-made-over-5-billion-20191031 https://www.ladbible.com/technology/gaming-the-sims-franchis... >The Sims Franchise Has Officially Made Over $5 Billion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-exdu4ETscs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-exdu4ETscs >The Sims, Pie Menus, Edith Editing, and SimAntics Visual Programming Demo. This is a demonstration of the pie menus, architectural editing tools, and Edith visual programming tools that I developed for The Sims with Will Wright at Maxis and Electronic Arts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC52jE60KjY >The Sims Steering Committee - June 4 1998. A demo of an early pre-release version of The Sims for The Sims Steering Committee at EA, developed June 4 1998. Documentation that I wrote about the visual programming language in The Sims: https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/VirtualMachine.pdf https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/VirtualMa... Ken Forbus taught SimAntics programming with Edith it in his game design course: https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/ProgrammingObjectsInTheSimsV3.pdf https://donhopkins.com/home/TheSimsDesignDocuments/Programmi... And I've also worked on developing other visual programming languages, like Bounce / Body Electric, and others that weren't released as commercial products. And I've actually used (and studied the visual code and source code and extension APIs of) a bunch of other visual programming languages, too. https://medium.com/@donhopkins/bounce-stuff-8310551a96e3 https://medium.com/@donhopkins/bounce-stuff-8310551a96e3 https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/visual-programming/bounce-notes.txt https://www.donhopkins.com/home/archive/visual-programming/b... Which visual programming languages have you used, and what did you use them for? Have you ever actually designed or developed any yourself? So now are you finally willing to share any of your great ideas and experiences, since you admit that you'll never get around to actually implementing those ideas yourself? What do you have to lose by sharing them, then? And if you refuse to share your ideas that you'll never implement, then why did you even bring them up in the first place?

crimsonalucard 6y ago
>Do you really believe you're infallible? And that I and everyone else is infallible too? Or was that just your sarcastic spelling? Not a misspelling. A misuse of a word. Can we move on from this? >So now are you finally willing to share any of your great ideas and experiences, since you admit that you'll never get around to actually implementing those ideas yourself? What do you have to lose by sharing them, then? And if you refuse to share your ideas that you'll never implement, then why did you even bring them up in the first place? The topic of conversation is viewpoint and in my opinion viewpoint is not an example of a good visual programming language as it's not even turing complete. I illustrated my thoughts on what a good visual programming language would entail. That is the topic. Whatever your background is, great. Whatever my background is it doesn't matter. I will say it's not as illustrious as yours and I have not implemented a visual programming language for a best selling game. Either way credentials have nothing to do with the topic at hand. I don't care about the timeline of things and the real topic at hand isn't who made a better photoshop. The topic at hand is visual programming languages. I made a comment on my thoughts about viewpoint and what I thought about what a visual language should look like. It appears that you disagree with me except, none of my thoughts were addressed. I just mostly see credentials of everyone being mentioned everywhere. I'm willing to talk about visual programming languages but I'm not going to introduce my idea to you because I don't know you and you haven't been very friendly to me. Additionally I only want to introduce it at a point in time when I have the resources to be very involved with the project if that ever happens in my lifetime. I'm not going to just give it to you so you can run with it. Also it's not that great of an idea anyway, it wasn't brought up to be talked about, it was just "mentioned" is a better word for it. Likely it will never get implemented as I don't have have the time to get it working. Visual programming is an interdisciplinary field that requires expertise in programming language theory, user interface design and graphics programming. My specialty is just web, so while I'm learning those things on the side because I'm interested in those things, whether all of that coalesces into a visual programming language remains to be seen.
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  Instead of complaining that you're not interested in all these different topics and people you don't want to know anything about, and then mentioning your own things as being superior to the things you're criticizing, but then refusing to say anything more about your own things when asked, and then complaining that Scott Kim didn't make a better Photoshop, but then complaining that "the real topic at hand isn't who made a better photoshop", and then being sarcastic some of the time, but also accidentally using words that mean the exact opposite of what you intend (which makes it hard to tell your sarcasm from your mistakes, just like Trump), it would have been a better idea for you to simply not participate in this discussion that you find so uninteresting and refuse to contribute to.