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What would it take to get this social aspect of cafes back? Exclusivity? No-smartphone rule? Dedicated discussion times? How do you envision us bringing thi

What would it take to get this social aspect of cafes back? Exclusivity? No-smartphone rule? Dedicated discussion times? How do you envision us bringing this back while adapting to modern social norms?

Ididntdothis 6y ago
More leisure time.
- RandomBacon 6y ago
  That will just be filled with more Internet (see people who have tons of leisure time (and are still being paid) due to the virus).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - gundmc 6y ago
    I don't disagree, but it's hard to point to the current mandated social distancing as empirical evidence. It's not like the people increasing their internet consumption could hang out at a cafe instead.
    - RandomBacon 6y ago
      True, but there are other alternatives: You can draw, write, read, build things, etc. It just requires people getting creative, which is something we've getting less acustomed to as we instead consume more and more.
  - asdff 6y ago
    The virus isn't a good example. All you can do with your time really is spend time on the internet or wander your neighborhood awkwardly shifting past people for the 100th time. I think we might have a whiplash when this is done, where people start engaging with public space at a higher rate than before the pandemic. Imagine everyone itching to just go to a bar, or a beach, or a trail, or a movie theater, or a cafe, or anything. I can see stuff being packed for months.
    - RandomBacon 6y ago
      > All you can do with your time really is spend time on the internet or wander your neighborhood No. You can draw, write, read, build things, etc. It just requires people getting creative, which is something we've getting less acustomed to as we instead consume more and more.
      - asdff 6y ago
        I've been playing a lot more guitar. Sometimes during zoom calls.
airstrike 6y ago
You'd need to uninvent the internet.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  And video games, and Netflix, and cheap travel, and Kindles, and CrossFit, and hackathons... People went to cafes in part because of the lack of options. We have multiple huge industries in the modern world designed around making extremely appealing content for every possible interest. All driven by real-time analytics created by some of the best minds in applied statistics, game theory, and psychology. In order to give people free time, you'd need to eliminate the things that are currently filling our time.
keiferski 6y ago
Before COVID happened, I was actually in the process of starting a new sort of meet-up site, aimed at solving this problem. My initial thought was to have an online discussion board but have mandatory monthly meet-ups in cities around the world. For example, in order to be a member of the site, you have to physically come to a meet-up once every six months. Often enough to become a part of the community, but not too much to feel like a burden. The core idea is to take the best of the Internet discussion format and combine it with the strengths of an in-person community. I’m certainly open to any suggestions or thoughts on the idea.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- el_dev_hell 6y ago
  I love the idea. Do you have anything setup already or a newsletter/mailing list I can join?
  - keiferski 6y ago
    Unfortunately not, but I’ve bookmarked your comment and I will let you know when I do.
- filoleg 6y ago
  This sounds pretty clever, I have definitely never thought of this before, but I dig the idea a lot. I genuinely hope the COVID situation isn't putting a nail on the coffin of implementation of this idea for you, and you will attempt it again once everything is back to normal.
  - keiferski 6y ago
    Thanks, don’t worry, I will definitely be working on it as soon as it’s feasible.
- markdown 6y ago
  Instead of a coffee shop, consider starting a kava bar. Kava is a great social lubricant without the intoxicating effects of alcohol.
gurkendoktor 6y ago
I think better sound isolation might help, in most modern establishment the background noise makes it impossible to have calm conversations. This article seems relevant enough, given that it starts out in a coffeeshop: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/how-restaurants-got-so-loud/576715/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/how-r...
- cardiffspaceman 6y ago
  But were cafe patrons of old quietly conversing with their table mates? Or was overheard conversation and speech-making part of the environment that brought fear to the minds of rulers?
  - gurkendoktor 6y ago
    I think it would be _easier_, not harder, to overhear conversations if acoustics were better. Turn off the background music, use materials that keep piercing cutlery noises to a minimum, that sort of thing.
twox2 6y ago
No phones or laptops allowed.
amiga_500 6y ago
lower rents. people have no time to sit about chatting, because you have to work all the time for the right to exist.
EamonnMR 6y ago
Disposable time would be the big one.
sammalloy 6y ago
Here it is: exclusivity. That’s what it is going to take in the new world of 2020. It could be as simple as an app that you schedule cafe time for with participating small cafes by yourself or for your friends, so that the table is waiting and ready for you. You can add all sorts of perks, from music control or silence for your block of time, to being able to choose the types of patrons that join you and your friends. Perhaps you are all musicians and you want to schedule a block of time with other musicians. The app would match you together and book the time.
toomanybeersies 6y ago
I think the key difference (from reading Wikipedia) is that people used to go to coffeehouses to socialise with whatever other regulars happen to be there, in the same way that you'd go to the pub knowing that a bunch of mates are bound to be there on a Friday night (this is also becoming much less common). People don't go to a cafe expecting to socialise with whoever is there, you go to see a friend that you've planned ahead to see, rather than socialise with others. Cafes have become a vehicle for social interaction, rather than a destination or activity in themselves. As a culture (Anglo-Western), ad hoc gatherings and meetings have sort of died off. Everything is always planned ahead and booked in. It used to be common if you were passing through the neighbourhood to knock on your friend's door and pop in for a chat, but these days you'd probably be considered a bit odd if you did that, especially without ringing or texting ahead. Maybe it's smartphones and being always connected. Maybe it's because people are time-poor and are unable to do this kind of thing any more. Maybe people don't like socialising with strangers any more. Maybe people are less social and would rather sit at home watching Netflix. It's probably all of the above.
- ignoramous 6y ago
  > Maybe it's smartphones and being always connected. I guess the smartphones (and the instant gratification) has filled up the hole that otherwise involved social interactions in the neighbour-hood. For instance, neighbours in my parent's village knew everyone at a very personal level. They had tea together pretty much every evening. I can't the say the same, in fact, I don't even know half their names.
crispyambulance 6y ago
> What would it take to get this social aspect of cafes back? I'm not sure it can ever come back. That was a different era. Perhaps "the cafe" is not the right setting anymore?
asdff 6y ago
It hasn't gone, just look for cafes that maintain this vibe. They are out there. The key is that they are a commercial coffee house last of all, in direct opposition of the business strategies of most high end gentrified cafes. The priority is the place as a gathering or event space for the local neighborhood or community. Look for board games in shelves, look for open mic events, look for booze on the menu, look for american spirit or clove cig butts in the ash tray outside. These are the telltale signs.
DrScump 6y ago
AC outlets cut off at 6. WiFi off at 7. Brings in a different clientele.
IkmoIkmo 6y ago
Not sure if it'll come back... I mean, if I didn't have places like hackernews or reddit, couldn't chat with friends on whatsapp, couldn't read the news online etc, then actually going out to meet new people would be the best source of insights and information. It's just not necessary anymore.

Ididntdothis 6y ago

More leisure time.

RandomBacon 6y ago
That will just be filled with more Internet (see people who have tons of leisure time (and are still being paid) due to the virus).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gundmc 6y ago
  I don't disagree, but it's hard to point to the current mandated social distancing as empirical evidence. It's not like the people increasing their internet consumption could hang out at a cafe instead.
  - RandomBacon 6y ago
    True, but there are other alternatives: You can draw, write, read, build things, etc. It just requires people getting creative, which is something we've getting less acustomed to as we instead consume more and more.
- asdff 6y ago
  The virus isn't a good example. All you can do with your time really is spend time on the internet or wander your neighborhood awkwardly shifting past people for the 100th time. I think we might have a whiplash when this is done, where people start engaging with public space at a higher rate than before the pandemic. Imagine everyone itching to just go to a bar, or a beach, or a trail, or a movie theater, or a cafe, or anything. I can see stuff being packed for months.
  - RandomBacon 6y ago
    > All you can do with your time really is spend time on the internet or wander your neighborhood No. You can draw, write, read, build things, etc. It just requires people getting creative, which is something we've getting less acustomed to as we instead consume more and more.
    - asdff 6y ago
      I've been playing a lot more guitar. Sometimes during zoom calls.

airstrike 6y ago

You'd need to uninvent the internet.

Godel_unicode 6y ago
And video games, and Netflix, and cheap travel, and Kindles, and CrossFit, and hackathons... People went to cafes in part because of the lack of options. We have multiple huge industries in the modern world designed around making extremely appealing content for every possible interest. All driven by real-time analytics created by some of the best minds in applied statistics, game theory, and psychology. In order to give people free time, you'd need to eliminate the things that are currently filling our time.

keiferski 6y ago

Before COVID happened, I was actually in the process of starting a new sort of meet-up site, aimed at solving this problem. My initial thought was to have an online discussion board but have mandatory monthly meet-ups in cities around the world. For example, in order to be a member of the site, you have to physically come to a meet-up once every six months. Often enough to become a part of the community, but not too much to feel like a burden. The core idea is to take the best of the Internet discussion format and combine it with the strengths of an in-person community. I’m certainly open to any suggestions or thoughts on the idea.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
el_dev_hell 6y ago
I love the idea. Do you have anything setup already or a newsletter/mailing list I can join?
- keiferski 6y ago
  Unfortunately not, but I’ve bookmarked your comment and I will let you know when I do.
filoleg 6y ago
This sounds pretty clever, I have definitely never thought of this before, but I dig the idea a lot. I genuinely hope the COVID situation isn't putting a nail on the coffin of implementation of this idea for you, and you will attempt it again once everything is back to normal.
- keiferski 6y ago
  Thanks, don’t worry, I will definitely be working on it as soon as it’s feasible.
markdown 6y ago
Instead of a coffee shop, consider starting a kava bar. Kava is a great social lubricant without the intoxicating effects of alcohol.

gurkendoktor 6y ago

I think better sound isolation might help, in most modern establishment the background noise makes it impossible to have calm conversations. This article seems relevant enough, given that it starts out in a coffeeshop: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/how-restaurants-got-so-loud/576715/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/how-r...

cardiffspaceman 6y ago
But were cafe patrons of old quietly conversing with their table mates? Or was overheard conversation and speech-making part of the environment that brought fear to the minds of rulers?
- gurkendoktor 6y ago
  I think it would be _easier_, not harder, to overhear conversations if acoustics were better. Turn off the background music, use materials that keep piercing cutlery noises to a minimum, that sort of thing.

twox2 6y ago

No phones or laptops allowed.

amiga_500 6y ago

lower rents. people have no time to sit about chatting, because you have to work all the time for the right to exist.

EamonnMR 6y ago

Disposable time would be the big one.

sammalloy 6y ago

Here it is: exclusivity. That’s what it is going to take in the new world of 2020. It could be as simple as an app that you schedule cafe time for with participating small cafes by yourself or for your friends, so that the table is waiting and ready for you. You can add all sorts of perks, from music control or silence for your block of time, to being able to choose the types of patrons that join you and your friends. Perhaps you are all musicians and you want to schedule a block of time with other musicians. The app would match you together and book the time.

toomanybeersies 6y ago

I think the key difference (from reading Wikipedia) is that people used to go to coffeehouses to socialise with whatever other regulars happen to be there, in the same way that you'd go to the pub knowing that a bunch of mates are bound to be there on a Friday night (this is also becoming much less common). People don't go to a cafe expecting to socialise with whoever is there, you go to see a friend that you've planned ahead to see, rather than socialise with others. Cafes have become a vehicle for social interaction, rather than a destination or activity in themselves. As a culture (Anglo-Western), ad hoc gatherings and meetings have sort of died off. Everything is always planned ahead and booked in. It used to be common if you were passing through the neighbourhood to knock on your friend's door and pop in for a chat, but these days you'd probably be considered a bit odd if you did that, especially without ringing or texting ahead. Maybe it's smartphones and being always connected. Maybe it's because people are time-poor and are unable to do this kind of thing any more. Maybe people don't like socialising with strangers any more. Maybe people are less social and would rather sit at home watching Netflix. It's probably all of the above.

ignoramous 6y ago
> Maybe it's smartphones and being always connected. I guess the smartphones (and the instant gratification) has filled up the hole that otherwise involved social interactions in the neighbour-hood. For instance, neighbours in my parent's village knew everyone at a very personal level. They had tea together pretty much every evening. I can't the say the same, in fact, I don't even know half their names.

crispyambulance 6y ago

> What would it take to get this social aspect of cafes back? I'm not sure it can ever come back. That was a different era. Perhaps "the cafe" is not the right setting anymore?

asdff 6y ago

It hasn't gone, just look for cafes that maintain this vibe. They are out there. The key is that they are a commercial coffee house last of all, in direct opposition of the business strategies of most high end gentrified cafes. The priority is the place as a gathering or event space for the local neighborhood or community. Look for board games in shelves, look for open mic events, look for booze on the menu, look for american spirit or clove cig butts in the ash tray outside. These are the telltale signs.

DrScump 6y ago

AC outlets cut off at 6. WiFi off at 7. Brings in a different clientele.

IkmoIkmo 6y ago

Not sure if it'll come back... I mean, if I didn't have places like hackernews or reddit, couldn't chat with friends on whatsapp, couldn't read the news online etc, then actually going out to meet new people would be the best source of insights and information. It's just not necessary anymore.