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"Their hospitals are not overwhelmed." They most definitely are. They don't even administer oxygen to patients, they old, uninfected people die because they do

"Their hospitals are not overwhelmed." They most definitely are. They don't even administer oxygen to patients, they old, uninfected people die because they don't want to use the extremely few respirators we have. Sweden's death rate per day per capita is an order of magnitude higher than any neighbouring country, and is not decreasing, unlike our neighbours'. There's absolutely no reason to believe that there will be mass death in e.g. Finland later.

malandrew 7y ago
> than any neighbouring country every time I see the reduction to only 2-3 neighboring Scandinavian countries as the comparison set, I can't help but think that people are moving the goalposts to support their conclusion. Yes, it's important to recognize comparables, so we can learn something, but we're not just looking for approaches to this dilemma that work in Scandinavian countries. Sweden is worse health-wise and better economically than countries most similar that totally shut down, but they are doing a lot better than other countries both health-wise and economically than other countries that shut down. Choosing only their direct comparables, and someone will come to their conclusion that their solution was a failure, when the truth is that it was neither a total failure nor total success and we should look into it in more detail to extract some lessons that can be applied more broadly. Dismissing Sweden as a failure would be like Alexander Fleming discarding the penicillin contaminated petri dish as a failure instead of observing more closely and learning something valuable.
- Grustaf 7y ago
  The thing is that Sweden’s numbers are not just slightly worse, they’re catastrophically worse than comparable countries. They’re also much worse than a lot of not directly comparable countries, but if I would bring that up then people would just dismiss it as not comparable. The bottom line is that the swedish strategy doesn’t work in Sweden and nothing indicates that it would work anywhere.
  - JPKab 7y ago
    NYCs numbers are catastrophically worse than Utah's numbers here in the US. Utah never did a lockdown at all and New York City did an aggressive one. The difference is obviously due to the fact that New York City is a global destination with huge inflows of people in and out of it. do you think that other Scandinavian countries are getting nearly as much travel in and out as Sweden is? I highly doubt it and I think that you are cherry picking to support your own agenda. Sweden should be compared to other global centers of commerce not to back waters like Finland and Norway. No offense to those countries but they don't register as a blip economically compared to Sweden and we all know it.
olodus 7y ago
I don't know where you get your data from but according to the latest numbers from FOHM the death rate in Sweden is most definitely decreasing. And the amount of people in intensive care, while a bit more fluctuating are atleast somewhat stable. All in all the number of infected people seems to have a linear growth right now, not exponential.
- neuronexmachina 7y ago
  Do you have a link handy to the FOHM data for Sweden?
- DanBC 7y ago
  >latest numbers from FOHM the death rate in Sweden Are they counting deaths that happen outside hospital in those figures?
  - ynfnehf 7y ago
    They count all deaths with a laboratory confirmed COVID19. Basically comparing the list of deaths with the list of diagnoses. Of course you still miss people that don't get tested before death. About 10% if recent investigations by Socialstyrelsen (one of Sweden's agencies) is to believed.

malandrew 7y ago

> than any neighbouring country every time I see the reduction to only 2-3 neighboring Scandinavian countries as the comparison set, I can't help but think that people are moving the goalposts to support their conclusion. Yes, it's important to recognize comparables, so we can learn something, but we're not just looking for approaches to this dilemma that work in Scandinavian countries. Sweden is worse health-wise and better economically than countries most similar that totally shut down, but they are doing a lot better than other countries both health-wise and economically than other countries that shut down. Choosing only their direct comparables, and someone will come to their conclusion that their solution was a failure, when the truth is that it was neither a total failure nor total success and we should look into it in more detail to extract some lessons that can be applied more broadly. Dismissing Sweden as a failure would be like Alexander Fleming discarding the penicillin contaminated petri dish as a failure instead of observing more closely and learning something valuable.

Grustaf 7y ago
The thing is that Sweden’s numbers are not just slightly worse, they’re catastrophically worse than comparable countries. They’re also much worse than a lot of not directly comparable countries, but if I would bring that up then people would just dismiss it as not comparable. The bottom line is that the swedish strategy doesn’t work in Sweden and nothing indicates that it would work anywhere.
- JPKab 7y ago
  NYCs numbers are catastrophically worse than Utah's numbers here in the US. Utah never did a lockdown at all and New York City did an aggressive one. The difference is obviously due to the fact that New York City is a global destination with huge inflows of people in and out of it. do you think that other Scandinavian countries are getting nearly as much travel in and out as Sweden is? I highly doubt it and I think that you are cherry picking to support your own agenda. Sweden should be compared to other global centers of commerce not to back waters like Finland and Norway. No offense to those countries but they don't register as a blip economically compared to Sweden and we all know it.

olodus 7y ago

I don't know where you get your data from but according to the latest numbers from FOHM the death rate in Sweden is most definitely decreasing. And the amount of people in intensive care, while a bit more fluctuating are atleast somewhat stable. All in all the number of infected people seems to have a linear growth right now, not exponential.

neuronexmachina 7y ago
Do you have a link handy to the FOHM data for Sweden?
DanBC 7y ago
>latest numbers from FOHM the death rate in Sweden Are they counting deaths that happen outside hospital in those figures?
- ynfnehf 7y ago
  They count all deaths with a laboratory confirmed COVID19. Basically comparing the list of deaths with the list of diagnoses. Of course you still miss people that don't get tested before death. About 10% if recent investigations by Socialstyrelsen (one of Sweden's agencies) is to believed.