6 ms·

Google inserts links to its Duo video chat app when users text about Zoom

84 points by tomduncalf 7y ago

roland35 7y ago
I still feel too burned by Reader to invest in another tool by Google!
- flir 7y ago
  Never forget.
- KingOfCoders 7y ago
  Same here.
- ajayyy 7y ago
  Don't forget that they deleted all Google+ data when they shut it down. And that was not a small service
  - benatkin 7y ago
    To add insult to injury, they show their standard 404 message when I click a link to an old Google+ post.
- lopis 7y ago
  And by doing that, piratically killed RSS. Sure, RSS is still around, but lots of sites dropped support and lots of users stopped using it.
  - tandr 7y ago
    For me, Feedly did fill some of the niche there, but it does not have that Reader or whatever next community was there to have "share with friends and discuss" part. But HN covered that part a bit too
- elviejo 7y ago
  plus one...
- kgwxd 7y ago
  I think of it as a favor, made me realize RSS is better on its own.
- zshift 7y ago
  I’m still feeling the pain from that. They built the best (for my use case) RSS reader, then completely shut it down. I wish companies would sometimes consider transitioning projects into the public space for the greater good. Look at what Microsoft has done with VSCode and the community editions.
Signez 7y ago
How isn't this textbook abuses of dominant position?
- Someone1234 7y ago
  The US has such lax anti-competition laws and enforcement, even if it was I highly doubt they'd ever even consider Google (Or Apple) in an anti-trust position let alone enforce it. The EU has done a little more here, but everyone online queues up to criticize them every time they do anything to try and protect consumers, so c'est la vie.
- jimbob45 7y ago
  The textbook anti-competition case, US v. Microsoft, was thrown out at the end of the day and settled. There is effectively no anti-competition oversight in the US.
  - est31 7y ago
    The US has a history of breaking up monopolies. Think of Standard Oil or Bell breakup. Usually when they react they react late, but when they do it, they make sure they don't have to come back again, as in they are very thorough with their breakup.
    - yellow_postit 7y ago
      Not sure about that, MaBell has essentially reassembled itself.
      - est31 7y ago
        How so? AT&T is a big carrier but it doesn't have near the size of the Bell system, no?
        rrrrrrrrrrrryan 7y ago
        We still don't have a full-blown monopoly like we used to, but there's been considerable consolidation in the industry over the years. The T-Mobile/Sprint merger is the latest example. Article from a few years back: https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/24/13389592/att-time-warner-merger-breakup-bell-system-chart https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/24/13389592/att-time-warner... There are massive economic incentives to consolidate infrastructure-like industries, hence why infrastructure is often nationalized, pseudo-nationalized, or heavily regulated.
qppo 7y ago
How does Google know the person on the other end is on an android phone with Duo installed?
- tantalor 7y ago
  Duo is cross platform.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  I don’t know that they necessarily do based on the article? Link might lead to a setup page.
- arusahni 7y ago
  Duo maintains a contacts list. It doesn't seem too big of a leap to assume Messages queries Duo to see if both parties have the app installed. Or, as others have suggested, it may take them to an app installation page on either the Play Store or App Store.
- jabroni_salad 7y ago
  Same as any other messenger app, by grabbing your contact list. When you open Duo it will show you a list of your contacts that are duo-able.
mikeflynn 7y ago
Was their only evidence the screenshot they included? It’s seems more likely that Google could have been looking for phrases like “Let’s look at it” rather than the term “Zoom”.
- tomduncalf 7y ago
  Yeah I did wonder this, part of why I posted it was it sounds too crazy to be true and I was hoping someone had a better explanation!
- karaterobot 7y ago
  Right. Another thing is that it's not clear whether they're inserting an advertisement into the conversation in a way that's visible to the other person, or if they're only trying to bring up on-screen help for the local user. The former seems much, much more intrusive than the latter. I'd still like the option to turn off either of them, but I don't really consider Clippy-esque eagerness to be sinister as much as presumptuous and annoying.
  - Loughla 7y ago
    >I don't really consider Clippy-esque eagerness to be sinister as much as presumptuous and annoying. I would give you that if Google was a small company without much experience in the field. But they're, what, the largest tech company that exists? There is no way this was approved without MANY conversations about the end user experience and what this actually does/is perceived. At some point, benefit of the doubt goes out the window. And I would argue that a company the size of google should no longer get the benefit of the doubt.
  - KukicAdnan 7y ago
    That's exactly what it is. In the Messages app if you enable Assistant Suggestions it'll usually give you quick replies based on the context of the conversation and sometimes offer app suggestions like set a calendar event or make a call. And you can turn it off if you don't want it.
- bilal4hmed 7y ago
anoncoward1337 7y ago
Someone must be going for a promotion in H2.
layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
Nice! Waiting for the HN-regular Googlers responses.
antr 7y ago
Many of Google's recent market practices feel very much like those of Microsoft in the late 90's, early 2000's. Producing unappealing products, and trying to use their influence to (unsuccessfully) deter users from switching to comeptition. Search is to Google what Windows was/is to Microsoft then, their core business, but all other efforts/products/services seemed fringy.
- Accujack 7y ago
  The problem with depending on corporations to "not be evil" is that corporations change with successive generations of management, new owners, etc. Some basic rules for when it's acceptable to read/interpret data that passes through a company's systems need to be codified into law. Or just update privacy laws in the US for the computer age.
  - mathnmusic 7y ago
    > corporations change with successive generations of management, new owners You can extend that to non-profits, or governments. Even individuals change with time and circumstances. We shouldn't DEPEND on anyone or any systems to "not be evil". We need rule of law instead.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >Search is to Google what Windows was/is to Microsoft then, their core business, but all other efforts/products/services seemed fringy. How did the rest of the story go, though? Microsoft now has a growing suite of great products that are no longer "fringe". There's some middle ground between practices like this article and preventing companies from innovating in spaces outside their core business.
  - 101404 7y ago
    The Dancing Monkey left the company, after that Microsoft got better.
    - 7y ago
sigmar 7y ago
Isn't "Google Assistant suggestions" opt-in? Seems like a good idea to turn it off if you don't want Google's suggestions
londons_explore 7y ago
I can't reproduce this. Can anyone else? What's the trigger?
- arjunnarayan 7y ago
  The trigger was the "let's look at this" phrase, not the "Join zoom" phrase. This is similar to when you say "where are you": it prompts the other person to share location (also on Android). This article is misleading.
- Latty 7y ago
  Looks to me like this is one of the google assistant suggestions. If you say "Let's go grab lunch", it'll show you "Find restaurants nearby." using Google maps, etc... If it is that, it's a local suggestion (one that isn't a link sent to the other user, just suggested to you) in the same way they do the "quick responses" thing.
corobo 7y ago
Sorry for offtopic.. is that really the gif they're marketing Duo with? The Duo side of the screen looks awful quality compared to the other side!
- blahpro 7y ago
  As far as I can tell, that GIF is showing Duo video quality before and after using a new codec design to improve quality particularly over low-bandwidth connections.
- fluidcruft 7y ago
  Yeah, what I've decided is that they both must be duo and the left is the new codec and the right is the old codec? They really should label that because it looks like "everyone else" vs "Google Duo" and what looks like the Google Duo looks like shit. Assuming that's what's going on. But even then if both sides are Duo it looks like "we took your Duo and made it ugly"
- Eridrus 7y ago
  Yeah, the gif is terrible... the AV1 side is on the left.... https://www.blog.google/products/duo/4-new-google-duo-features-help-you-stay-connected/ https://www.blog.google/products/duo/4-new-google-duo-featur...
  - corobo 7y ago
    Ahhh! Unfortunate watermark positioning that
KukicAdnan 7y ago
It didn't add a link to the conversation for the other user. It's a Google Assistant suggestion feature in the Messages app that tries to be helpful by providing intentful snippets you can one-click reply with. And if you don't want the suggestions you can turn them off.
est31 7y ago
Not the first time where a large chat platform exploits its market share. Whatsapp for example used to un-highlight telegram links.
pbnjay 7y ago
I've had multiple instances of scheduling Zoom meetings where GSuite automatically added a Meet link also. Had to send a fix to attendees the first time and caught it the next few times before I sent the invites. Very annoying practice and I couldn't find any obvious way to turn it off.
shrikant 7y ago
Has anyone here been able to reproduce this? I've just tried this with someone else who has Duo installed as well, and I've got all the fancy suggestions things turned on, and wasn't able to get this suggestion. Might be worth waiting for a few more reputable sources to confirm that this is actually replicable before sharpening the pitchforks...
- hysan 7y ago
  As with most features, this could be part of an A/B Test which makes confirming it difficult.
dewey 7y ago
I flagged this and not because I'm a Google fanboy (quite the opposite) but because this seems like a classic case of fakenews clickbait that's based on a misunderstanding of someone's screenshot.
ARandomerDude 7y ago
Good. Zoom needs a competitor, especially given their very shady practices (backdoor servers, routing traffic through China, etc.).
baud147258 7y ago
Not that different from Windows 10 proposing to use the new Edge version when starting a browser (it also happened with Firefox & Opera) via the start menu. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPD13_oX0AEnhTb?format=png&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPD13_oX0AEnhTb?format=png&name=...
llagerlof 7y ago
What Google needs is to allow quick and easy creation of rooms and invite links, no requested login whatsoever, just a single textbox to fill your name. Just make it easy like Zoom, or even easier for Christ sake. I am not a multi-billionaire company and even I know this is basic.
suddenexample 7y ago
This prompt appears in many, many contexts - whenever the ML model decides that a Duo prompt is useful. These "smart suggestions" aren't sent in the chat to both parties, and have been around for quite some time. Maybe Google decided to retrain their models specifically to target Zoom, and maybe they didn't. Whatever the case, this issue is blown so much out of proportion. This place is starting to remind me of Reddit.

84 points by tomduncalf 7y ago

roland35 7y ago

I still feel too burned by Reader to invest in another tool by Google!

flir 7y ago
Never forget.
KingOfCoders 7y ago
Same here.
ajayyy 7y ago
Don't forget that they deleted all Google+ data when they shut it down. And that was not a small service
- benatkin 7y ago
  To add insult to injury, they show their standard 404 message when I click a link to an old Google+ post.
lopis 7y ago
And by doing that, piratically killed RSS. Sure, RSS is still around, but lots of sites dropped support and lots of users stopped using it.
- tandr 7y ago
  For me, Feedly did fill some of the niche there, but it does not have that Reader or whatever next community was there to have "share with friends and discuss" part. But HN covered that part a bit too
elviejo 7y ago
plus one...
kgwxd 7y ago
I think of it as a favor, made me realize RSS is better on its own.
zshift 7y ago
I’m still feeling the pain from that. They built the best (for my use case) RSS reader, then completely shut it down. I wish companies would sometimes consider transitioning projects into the public space for the greater good. Look at what Microsoft has done with VSCode and the community editions.

Signez 7y ago

How isn't this textbook abuses of dominant position?

Someone1234 7y ago
The US has such lax anti-competition laws and enforcement, even if it was I highly doubt they'd ever even consider Google (Or Apple) in an anti-trust position let alone enforce it. The EU has done a little more here, but everyone online queues up to criticize them every time they do anything to try and protect consumers, so c'est la vie.
jimbob45 7y ago
The textbook anti-competition case, US v. Microsoft, was thrown out at the end of the day and settled. There is effectively no anti-competition oversight in the US.
- est31 7y ago
  The US has a history of breaking up monopolies. Think of Standard Oil or Bell breakup. Usually when they react they react late, but when they do it, they make sure they don't have to come back again, as in they are very thorough with their breakup.
  - yellow_postit 7y ago
    Not sure about that, MaBell has essentially reassembled itself.
    - est31 7y ago
      How so? AT&T is a big carrier but it doesn't have near the size of the Bell system, no?
      - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 7y ago
        We still don't have a full-blown monopoly like we used to, but there's been considerable consolidation in the industry over the years. The T-Mobile/Sprint merger is the latest example. Article from a few years back: https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/24/13389592/att-time-warner-merger-breakup-bell-system-chart https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/24/13389592/att-time-warner... There are massive economic incentives to consolidate infrastructure-like industries, hence why infrastructure is often nationalized, pseudo-nationalized, or heavily regulated.

qppo 7y ago

How does Google know the person on the other end is on an android phone with Duo installed?

tantalor 7y ago
Duo is cross platform.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
I don’t know that they necessarily do based on the article? Link might lead to a setup page.
arusahni 7y ago
Duo maintains a contacts list. It doesn't seem too big of a leap to assume Messages queries Duo to see if both parties have the app installed. Or, as others have suggested, it may take them to an app installation page on either the Play Store or App Store.
jabroni_salad 7y ago
Same as any other messenger app, by grabbing your contact list. When you open Duo it will show you a list of your contacts that are duo-able.

mikeflynn 7y ago

Was their only evidence the screenshot they included? It’s seems more likely that Google could have been looking for phrases like “Let’s look at it” rather than the term “Zoom”.

tomduncalf 7y ago
Yeah I did wonder this, part of why I posted it was it sounds too crazy to be true and I was hoping someone had a better explanation!
karaterobot 7y ago
Right. Another thing is that it's not clear whether they're inserting an advertisement into the conversation in a way that's visible to the other person, or if they're only trying to bring up on-screen help for the local user. The former seems much, much more intrusive than the latter. I'd still like the option to turn off either of them, but I don't really consider Clippy-esque eagerness to be sinister as much as presumptuous and annoying.
- Loughla 7y ago
  >I don't really consider Clippy-esque eagerness to be sinister as much as presumptuous and annoying. I would give you that if Google was a small company without much experience in the field. But they're, what, the largest tech company that exists? There is no way this was approved without MANY conversations about the end user experience and what this actually does/is perceived. At some point, benefit of the doubt goes out the window. And I would argue that a company the size of google should no longer get the benefit of the doubt.
- KukicAdnan 7y ago
  That's exactly what it is. In the Messages app if you enable Assistant Suggestions it'll usually give you quick replies based on the context of the conversation and sometimes offer app suggestions like set a calendar event or make a call. And you can turn it off if you don't want it.
bilal4hmed 7y ago

anoncoward1337 7y ago

Someone must be going for a promotion in H2.

layoutIfNeeded 7y ago

Nice! Waiting for the HN-regular Googlers responses.

antr 7y ago

Many of Google's recent market practices feel very much like those of Microsoft in the late 90's, early 2000's. Producing unappealing products, and trying to use their influence to (unsuccessfully) deter users from switching to comeptition. Search is to Google what Windows was/is to Microsoft then, their core business, but all other efforts/products/services seemed fringy.

Accujack 7y ago
The problem with depending on corporations to "not be evil" is that corporations change with successive generations of management, new owners, etc. Some basic rules for when it's acceptable to read/interpret data that passes through a company's systems need to be codified into law. Or just update privacy laws in the US for the computer age.
- mathnmusic 7y ago
  > corporations change with successive generations of management, new owners You can extend that to non-profits, or governments. Even individuals change with time and circumstances. We shouldn't DEPEND on anyone or any systems to "not be evil". We need rule of law instead.
aguyfromnb 7y ago
>Search is to Google what Windows was/is to Microsoft then, their core business, but all other efforts/products/services seemed fringy. How did the rest of the story go, though? Microsoft now has a growing suite of great products that are no longer "fringe". There's some middle ground between practices like this article and preventing companies from innovating in spaces outside their core business.
- 101404 7y ago
  The Dancing Monkey left the company, after that Microsoft got better.
  - 7y ago

sigmar 7y ago

Isn't "Google Assistant suggestions" opt-in? Seems like a good idea to turn it off if you don't want Google's suggestions

londons_explore 7y ago

I can't reproduce this. Can anyone else? What's the trigger?

arjunnarayan 7y ago
The trigger was the "let's look at this" phrase, not the "Join zoom" phrase. This is similar to when you say "where are you": it prompts the other person to share location (also on Android). This article is misleading.
Latty 7y ago
Looks to me like this is one of the google assistant suggestions. If you say "Let's go grab lunch", it'll show you "Find restaurants nearby." using Google maps, etc... If it is that, it's a local suggestion (one that isn't a link sent to the other user, just suggested to you) in the same way they do the "quick responses" thing.

corobo 7y ago

Sorry for offtopic.. is that really the gif they're marketing Duo with? The Duo side of the screen looks awful quality compared to the other side!

blahpro 7y ago
As far as I can tell, that GIF is showing Duo video quality before and after using a new codec design to improve quality particularly over low-bandwidth connections.
fluidcruft 7y ago
Yeah, what I've decided is that they both must be duo and the left is the new codec and the right is the old codec? They really should label that because it looks like "everyone else" vs "Google Duo" and what looks like the Google Duo looks like shit. Assuming that's what's going on. But even then if both sides are Duo it looks like "we took your Duo and made it ugly"
Eridrus 7y ago
Yeah, the gif is terrible... the AV1 side is on the left.... https://www.blog.google/products/duo/4-new-google-duo-features-help-you-stay-connected/ https://www.blog.google/products/duo/4-new-google-duo-featur...
- corobo 7y ago
  Ahhh! Unfortunate watermark positioning that

KukicAdnan 7y ago

It didn't add a link to the conversation for the other user. It's a Google Assistant suggestion feature in the Messages app that tries to be helpful by providing intentful snippets you can one-click reply with. And if you don't want the suggestions you can turn them off.

est31 7y ago

Not the first time where a large chat platform exploits its market share. Whatsapp for example used to un-highlight telegram links.

pbnjay 7y ago

I've had multiple instances of scheduling Zoom meetings where GSuite automatically added a Meet link also. Had to send a fix to attendees the first time and caught it the next few times before I sent the invites. Very annoying practice and I couldn't find any obvious way to turn it off.

shrikant 7y ago

Has anyone here been able to reproduce this? I've just tried this with someone else who has Duo installed as well, and I've got all the fancy suggestions things turned on, and wasn't able to get this suggestion. Might be worth waiting for a few more reputable sources to confirm that this is actually replicable before sharpening the pitchforks...

hysan 7y ago
As with most features, this could be part of an A/B Test which makes confirming it difficult.

dewey 7y ago

I flagged this and not because I'm a Google fanboy (quite the opposite) but because this seems like a classic case of fakenews clickbait that's based on a misunderstanding of someone's screenshot.

ARandomerDude 7y ago

Good. Zoom needs a competitor, especially given their very shady practices (backdoor servers, routing traffic through China, etc.).

baud147258 7y ago

Not that different from Windows 10 proposing to use the new Edge version when starting a browser (it also happened with Firefox & Opera) via the start menu. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPD13_oX0AEnhTb?format=png&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPD13_oX0AEnhTb?format=png&name=...

llagerlof 7y ago

What Google needs is to allow quick and easy creation of rooms and invite links, no requested login whatsoever, just a single textbox to fill your name. Just make it easy like Zoom, or even easier for Christ sake. I am not a multi-billionaire company and even I know this is basic.

suddenexample 7y ago

This prompt appears in many, many contexts - whenever the ML model decides that a Duo prompt is useful. These "smart suggestions" aren't sent in the chat to both parties, and have been around for quite some time. Maybe Google decided to retrain their models specifically to target Zoom, and maybe they didn't. Whatever the case, this issue is blown so much out of proportion. This place is starting to remind me of Reddit.