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Even aside from the economic fallout which on its own keeps me up at night, I'm really terrified of the social consequences of this. The United States by and l

Even aside from the economic fallout which on its own keeps me up at night, I'm really terrified of the social consequences of this. The United States by and large is not a very compassionate society to begin with, and our hatred for the poor and unemployed is among the highest in the world. It was already bad enough in normal conditions, but when our collective fury is unleashed on 20something million people, and likely more before this is all said and done, I'm afraid of what the short-term and long-term effects are going to be. I'm afraid to even speculate on this.

erentz 6y ago
I think it’s important to distinguish between what the American people want and what the system produces. The majority of Americans support policies that would make a more compassionate society.[1] But these policies don’t get traction or passed due to a corrupt system that fails to represent people. [1] E.g. the latest Medicare for All poll shows overall 69% of Americans support it, rising to 88% of Dems support it. So overall the population wants it yet it doesn’t happen. You also see similar disconnect between what people support and what we have with other policies that would make American society more compassionate one. (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/25/poll-shows-nearly-90-democratic-support-biden-told-hostility-medicare-all-no-longer https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/25/poll-shows-near...)
- eli_gottlieb 6y ago
  >E.g. the latest Medicare for All poll shows overall 69% of Americans support it, rising to 88% of Dems support it. So overall the population wants it yet it doesn’t happen. It's important to note that, with the Democratic primary having wound down, most of these 88% of Dems seem to have voted for an imagined version of Joe Biden who was, at the least, not explicitly against Medicare For All.
  - samdamsamm 6y ago
    Right. It’s pretty unbelievable and very sad that the media has been able to somehow convince so many Americans that Joe Biden is some kind of New Deal Democrat. He was a pioneer of the policies we now know as actually existing neoliberalism. Yet again, it is even more obvious than before that the United States is an oligarchy without exception.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      The suffering will continue until older cohorts age out and younger cohorts grow as a majority, supporting progressive policies, along with the passing of existing elderly incumbent politicians who aren't "on board" (neither Biden nor Pelosi support Medicare For All, but they're also 77 and 80 years old respectively). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/20/a-wider-partisan-and-ideological-gap-between-younger-older-generations/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/20/a-wider-par... (A wider partisan and ideological gap between younger, older generations)
      - eli_gottlieb 6y ago
        I agree that there's a large partisan and ideological gap between the young and old, but people have been predicting the "aging in" of a new, more progressive electorate for about as long as I can remember. It never seems to actually happen. eg: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/2020-republicans-doomed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/2020-republicans-doo...
        toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Shifting politics takes time, a glacial pace. Lots of progress so far (LGBTQ+ rights, marijuana legalization state by state, minimum wage increases, restoring voting rights to felons), just have to keep applying pressure. Lots of work left to be done. See you on the campaign trail.
opo 6y ago
The US population is generally considered one of the most generous in the world whether you consider the amounts given to charity as a percentage of GDP or time spent volunteering to help others: >...The United States is often considered the most generous country in the world. Why? Because Americans donate a lot of money. Its people, its foundations and its companies donated roughly $410 billion in 2017 -- or about 2.1% of its own GDP. In fact, the amount Americans donated was more than the entire GDP of all but about 40 countries in the world. >You could argue that Americans can simply afford to be more generous. And that if people in other countries could give more, they would. >But what if instead of looking at how much people give, we looked at how many people in a country are giving? And what if we looked at more than money -- and also counted people who volunteer their time and help strangers? >Gallup does just that -- every year -- in more than 140 countries. >In our latest survey, the United States isn't at the very top of this list. We find that the most generous countries by these metrics are Indonesia and Australia -- followed closely by the United States and New Zealand. https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/245192/generous-countries-world.aspx https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/245192/generous-count... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitable_donation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitabl...
- twoquestions 6y ago
  To be quite honest I wasn't expecting data like this. America is a big place, and it's entirely possible either I was wrong or I grew up in a tightwad part of the country. As far as opinions toward the unemployed, my google-fu is too weak to find hard data, as current headlines are saturated with the millions of suddenly "not necessary" people losing their jobs, so all I got for you is anecdata. I'm from the Rust Belt, a part of the country that's largely abandoned by Capital, where 30 years ago it was much easier to find a job then than now. Between your data and jobs now deemed essential which were previously held in contempt (gas station attendants, grocery store workers, etc.) my outlook has become slightly more rosy.
RandomBacon 6y ago
> The United States by and large is not a very compassionate society to begin with, and our hatred for the poor and unemployed is among the highest in the world. Source?
- RandomBacon 6y ago
  Of all places, I'm surprised HN doesn't like me asking for evidence.

erentz 6y ago

I think it’s important to distinguish between what the American people want and what the system produces. The majority of Americans support policies that would make a more compassionate society.[1] But these policies don’t get traction or passed due to a corrupt system that fails to represent people. [1] E.g. the latest Medicare for All poll shows overall 69% of Americans support it, rising to 88% of Dems support it. So overall the population wants it yet it doesn’t happen. You also see similar disconnect between what people support and what we have with other policies that would make American society more compassionate one. (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/25/poll-shows-nearly-90-democratic-support-biden-told-hostility-medicare-all-no-longer https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/25/poll-shows-near...)

eli_gottlieb 6y ago
>E.g. the latest Medicare for All poll shows overall 69% of Americans support it, rising to 88% of Dems support it. So overall the population wants it yet it doesn’t happen. It's important to note that, with the Democratic primary having wound down, most of these 88% of Dems seem to have voted for an imagined version of Joe Biden who was, at the least, not explicitly against Medicare For All.
- samdamsamm 6y ago
  Right. It’s pretty unbelievable and very sad that the media has been able to somehow convince so many Americans that Joe Biden is some kind of New Deal Democrat. He was a pioneer of the policies we now know as actually existing neoliberalism. Yet again, it is even more obvious than before that the United States is an oligarchy without exception.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    The suffering will continue until older cohorts age out and younger cohorts grow as a majority, supporting progressive policies, along with the passing of existing elderly incumbent politicians who aren't "on board" (neither Biden nor Pelosi support Medicare For All, but they're also 77 and 80 years old respectively). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/20/a-wider-partisan-and-ideological-gap-between-younger-older-generations/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/20/a-wider-par... (A wider partisan and ideological gap between younger, older generations)
    - eli_gottlieb 6y ago
      I agree that there's a large partisan and ideological gap between the young and old, but people have been predicting the "aging in" of a new, more progressive electorate for about as long as I can remember. It never seems to actually happen. eg: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/2020-republicans-doomed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/2020-republicans-doo...
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Shifting politics takes time, a glacial pace. Lots of progress so far (LGBTQ+ rights, marijuana legalization state by state, minimum wage increases, restoring voting rights to felons), just have to keep applying pressure. Lots of work left to be done. See you on the campaign trail.

opo 6y ago

The US population is generally considered one of the most generous in the world whether you consider the amounts given to charity as a percentage of GDP or time spent volunteering to help others: >...The United States is often considered the most generous country in the world. Why? Because Americans donate a lot of money. Its people, its foundations and its companies donated roughly $410 billion in 2017 -- or about 2.1% of its own GDP. In fact, the amount Americans donated was more than the entire GDP of all but about 40 countries in the world. >You could argue that Americans can simply afford to be more generous. And that if people in other countries could give more, they would. >But what if instead of looking at how much people give, we looked at how many people in a country are giving? And what if we looked at more than money -- and also counted people who volunteer their time and help strangers? >Gallup does just that -- every year -- in more than 140 countries. >In our latest survey, the United States isn't at the very top of this list. We find that the most generous countries by these metrics are Indonesia and Australia -- followed closely by the United States and New Zealand. https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/245192/generous-countries-world.aspx https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/245192/generous-count... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitable_donation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_charitabl...

twoquestions 6y ago
To be quite honest I wasn't expecting data like this. America is a big place, and it's entirely possible either I was wrong or I grew up in a tightwad part of the country. As far as opinions toward the unemployed, my google-fu is too weak to find hard data, as current headlines are saturated with the millions of suddenly "not necessary" people losing their jobs, so all I got for you is anecdata. I'm from the Rust Belt, a part of the country that's largely abandoned by Capital, where 30 years ago it was much easier to find a job then than now. Between your data and jobs now deemed essential which were previously held in contempt (gas station attendants, grocery store workers, etc.) my outlook has become slightly more rosy.

RandomBacon 6y ago

> The United States by and large is not a very compassionate society to begin with, and our hatred for the poor and unemployed is among the highest in the world. Source?

RandomBacon 6y ago
Of all places, I'm surprised HN doesn't like me asking for evidence.